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GENERAL CATEGORY => General Discussion => Topic started by: pegleg jack on August 07, 2009, 09:11:08 AM

Title: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 07, 2009, 09:11:08 AM
you-all need to start reading up on this cause if it passes, you will have big brother in you house real fast, and as for me it is going to  put me  backinto my wheel chair, cause they want to do away with MEDICARE PART B. The bill nr is HR3200, And it is over 1000 pages long, takes a while to read all of it, but it scares the holy be-jesus out of me.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 07, 2009, 09:25:42 AM
Saw my leg guy yesterday and he told me about this..He to is very concerned..God help us.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on August 07, 2009, 10:04:42 AM
you-all need to start reading up on this cause if it passes, you will have big brother in you house real fast, and as for me it is going to  put me  backinto my wheel chair, cause they want to do away with MEDICARE PART B. The bill nr is HR3200, And it is over 1000 pages long, takes a while to read all of it, but it scares the holy be-jesus out of me.


Pegleg Jack,  where can I find the bill you are talking about?  I also am VERY concerned about this healthcare they are wanting to pass... >:(
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 07, 2009, 10:23:56 AM
Gosh, Lets hope it  doesn't pass... >:( :-\
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on August 07, 2009, 02:26:46 PM
An interesting poll on CNN shows that 74% of all Americans like health care the way it is while 64% are happy with their insurance provider. I would fall into this majority.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 07, 2009, 02:34:28 PM
Same here Joe...we are very content and happy with our current insurance.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on August 07, 2009, 05:03:29 PM
Well Snowy. Then who are these 26%? I just received a followup call from my insurer because of my recent hospital stay. My only complaint was a bit too much garlic in the Italian salad dressing. before I could say I was joking, they said, "We'll take care of that at once Sir".
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 07, 2009, 08:52:23 PM
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 07, 2009, 09:44:29 PM
Here is the latest that i have heard on this and havent been able to see it in print, the DEMOGRATS, now want every one that will do it, is to let them know by email or other means the name and address of the person emailing information on this hr3200 health care bill,
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 07, 2009, 10:28:15 PM
I heard that too. That is just ridiculous.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 08, 2009, 01:40:22 AM
Ah yes!  The battle is on.  The Medical Industry and the Insurance Industry and Big Pharma are all fighting tooth-and-nail to keep their wonderful Cash Cow just the way it is.  Fear tactics galore.  Outrageous claims of doom and gloom if any healthcare reform were to see the light of day.

If you've been invited to join the screaming protests against healthcare reform, ask yourself just who invited you to protest?  Who is organizing the resistance?  Who is paying for all the heavy lobbying to defeat the reform bill?  What is their vested interest in all of this?

You and I deserve to know just who the players are.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 08, 2009, 01:55:30 AM
Joe:

Gotta admit that the hospiutal food was reasonably OK.  My main complaint was that they "flunked potato salad".  Other than that, OK.

I did discover that they were on a one-week cycle.  Once when I was on heavy medication, the nurse checked if I was disoriented by asking if I knew what day it was.  I looked at the dinner tray in front of me and said "It's Spanish Rice - It's gotta be Tuesday." (I passed the test.)   :)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on August 08, 2009, 02:03:12 PM
This whole magilla is nothing more than a veiled racial issue. Everyone knows it and see's it for what it is. As seen on TV last night a Politicrat standing right in front of a mans crippled son agrees that his benefits would in fact cease under the new plan with the promise that "we could add an addendum after it passes".

Meanwhile... The sale of bullets in the U.S. is so brisk as to have created a shortage. I don't think the SS will defend O'Bammy if he continues to insult the military and law enforcement. Remember Kennedy? I pray they don't do it in front of his wife. The people he's toying with have the money to make him disappear.

I think we should offer them all a free cruise to England. If 10% is good enough for Jesus and good enough for the Queen then why not?
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Oneblueleg on August 08, 2009, 07:59:56 PM
Joe, you really don't realise what a massive cocoon you are living in... doesn't the fact that your fellow countrymen are buying bullets tell you something about the mentality of the society in which you live?.... from the outside looking in, it's not about Obama, it's about the likes of you...

"I pray they don't do it in front of his wife."..... is it really OK to say that kind of crap?

good ol Joe I guess...

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on August 08, 2009, 11:57:42 PM
'Oneblueleg"

I would love for you to read this health care bill.....yes there alot out there who do not have any health care.  I agree they should be covered, but not this way.  This bill is taking away our freedom to choose everything from the doctor we want to our end of life freedom...and not letting the citizens decide what insurance they want.

This freedom I'm talking about is what America is all about...this is what we fight for!!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 09, 2009, 01:01:15 AM
Ann:

Have YOU read the actual plan, HB 3200, or are you just reacting to the wild assertions of the anti-reform movement, that are flying all over the Internet?  After all the scare-tactic hype, what are the ACTUAL proposals that are being presented?  I notice that those who are screaming "No. No. No." aren't offering any better plan.

Joe:

What you say about bullets and guns in America is scary.  What's wrong with this society that thinks the answer to every social and political problem is More Bullets and More Guns?  Hmmm.  How did this topic rear its ugly head in the midst of a thread on Healthcare Reform?

Now, does anyone have any verifiable facts about the new plan?

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 09, 2009, 09:35:25 AM
Dick, i do believe Ann has for she has the same copy that i have and it states in there that the government will have the right to axcess your checking account and personal records at any time. Also requires anyone over the age of 55 to go to lectures on end of live lectures, and it also giving NON-CITIZENS, coverage at no cost to them, and also states that in the near future that they are going to eliminate MEDICARE completely. And you dint have a choice in which doctor you see they tell you which ones you can go to, and health care will be rationed, and another sec giving them the right to come into your home after you have a child and tell you how to raise the child.

I agree that we need to overhaul the health system, but not this way, to me they need to knock down the wages and prices for things, I now of nurses that are making over 125,000.00 a year and my doctors nurse down here is making over 90,000.00 a year, have a MRI or CATSCAN and look at the bill it is outrageous.

I haven't got through all 1000 pages of it, but what i have read scare the heck out of me.
And if they gut  MEDICARE, it is going to put me back into my wheel chair permanently, cause i cannot afford to pay for my legs out of my own pocket.

And have been told that if it does go through that my CPO is going to close his doors, for most of his people are on MEDICARE.  And he know that most of us cannot afford to pay for this, I know i cant come up with over 30,000.00 every three years or so for a new pair.

IT allso state that the goverment has the right to determine what and when the treatment you will recieve.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on August 09, 2009, 10:15:51 AM
Jack - it appears that you and several others have a lot of misinformation about the new health care bill. It specifically prohibits payment for undocumented aliens. It does not stop coverage for durable medical equipment. It does have enhanced penalties for fraud for for durable equipment which is running at 17% right now. It does not give the government access to your checking account. Eligibility is based on a person's federal tax records which the government already has. It does pay for end of life counseling if a patient wants it. People already have to make end of life decisions on such things as pain management, hospice care, hospital care verses home care, no code or extreme measures when one's heart stops. It will be no different.
Here is a link to a section by section summary of the bill. You can scroll down through it to find the sections of the law you are concerned about so you can get accurate info. Herb

http://www.stark.house.gov/images/stories/111/legislation/AAHCA/aahca-sectionbysection-071409.pdf
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 09, 2009, 02:21:31 PM
One factor we haven't mentioned yet that makes healthcare so outrageously expensive in the USA - the high cost of our ligigous legal system.  People can sue for outlandish amounts for just about anything.  Doctors, hospitals and others have to spend outrageous amounts for medical malpractice insurance.  And that added expense has to be added to the price.

Many of the tests that we have to go thru while in the hospital (some of them rather invasive and uncomfortable - and expensive) are given to everyone just to protect the hospitals and doctors from possible lawsuit.

All this contributes to the cost of drugs and medical supplies, too.

One example, a particular antibiotic for human use is priced TEN TIMES as much as the identical antibiotic (same dose, same manufacturer) labeled for veterinary use.  Why such a huge difference?  (If I ever need that drug, my name is Fido or Rover.)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 09, 2009, 02:46:50 PM
Herb, this is copied from the bill, SEC 152, PGS 50-51 - HC will be provided to all NON-US citizens.

SEC 59b - Akny nonresident alien is exempt from individual taxes(Americans 3will pay for thier health care.

SEC 431 PG 195, OFFICERS and EMPLOYEES of HC administration will have access to all americans financial and personnal records.

SEC 1233 THIS SECTION DEALS WITH END OF LIFE AS THEY SEE IT.

and all through the bill it states that health care is to be rationed, and treatment will be determing by the HC administration.

AND if they do away with MEDICARE, THERE goes me coverage for DM equipment.

So in closing HERB. I dont think i have been misinformed when i have a copy of the HR3200 right here on my computor as i type this.

GOOD to see that you believe SENATOR STARK, A DEMOGRAT. I sure dont.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on August 09, 2009, 07:39:52 PM
Hi Jack - I have read every word of the sections you mentioned and could not find your quotes. Section 431 only refers to internal revenue returns not to personal financial records. I have looked and can not find any reference to eliminating durable medical equipment or medicare. Can you give a link to your quotes. Thanks herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 11, 2009, 09:15:36 AM
Herb, since i made that last post i have read and looked at three differant copies of hr3200 and each and everyone it just a little bit differant, dont know who is doing this, but until they come up with the one they are going to vote on, i am not making any more statements other than i dont like it at all.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on August 11, 2009, 11:23:35 AM


First let me say, I am proud of you guys.....the way you are debating this health care bill.  You are using good sense and not flying off the handle...just debating.  Herb did you see the town meeting this morning on Fox with Senator Spector?  At least he has the courage to have these meetings.  Most people are against the health bill as it is now written.  It definately needs rewriting & try again if Pres. Obama really wants to help the health system.  :)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on August 11, 2009, 05:14:50 PM
Hi Ann - I was out all day cutting firewood so I missed the town meeting. I will try to find it at Fox's website.

Jack - there seem to be a lot of people being quoted in the media that are intentionally giving out false info. here is a link to the health care bill that I got at the US House of Representatives website. Herb


http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: JClark on August 11, 2009, 07:05:49 PM
Personally, I'm buying bullets because the police won't do anything about the 20 something year old 3 doors up selling crack and brewing what drugs using anti-freeze.  They've broken into other houses twice in the past month.  They've vandalized my car twice since March (and other cars too). 
doesn't the fact that your fellow countrymen are buying bullets tell you something about the mentality of the society in which you live?.... from the outside looking in, it's not about Obama, it's about the likes of you...

"I pray they don't do it in front of his wife."..... is it really OK to say that kind of crap?
Last fall, late Sept or so, I did a google search from home (a BIG mistake!) about OBama and assassination.  I also searched for McCain and assassination.  It was part of a discussion for school.  I had some suspicious "pollsters" the next day asking me about my views.....

Personally, I don't want to see anyone killed, especially the President.  If he's not doing the job, killing him is NOT the way to fix the problem.  It was bad enough doing it in front of Jackie, but imagine if their kids had been there.  Imagine the way it impacted people who WERE there - children and adults.

Jason
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 12, 2009, 10:08:50 AM
here is another question on this, i didnt get all of it on the news, but what i did get wast that they plan on taking 500 million or 500 billion out of the MEDICARE money to help pay for the new health care,was distrubed by someone else and didnt get all of it, has anyone else heard this and can let me now if it is true or not. To my own opinion if this happens it will just about kill MEDICARE as we know it now.

Jclark, most of the people i know are buying up slugs cause the president want to put a big tax on them, and limit the amount that we can have at any one time, he knows that gun control here in the USA, is a dead issue, so he has found out that they can control manufacture on the bullits, and get to us that way, This only what i have read and heard, and havent seen anything become of it yet, i also am buying them my self, and because of this reason.

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on August 14, 2009, 04:59:19 PM
"What you say about bullets and guns in America is scary.  What's wrong with this society that thinks the answer to every social and political problem is More Bullets and More Guns?  Hmmm.  How did this topic rear its ugly head in the midst of a thread on Healthcare Reform?"

Probably because it's worked so well so far? The first rule of problem solving is to ask if we can eliminate the problem.

"...Now, does anyone have any verifiable facts about the new plan?..."

Oh sure. Now you want to cloud the issue with facts? Lets start with this simple fact. In America nobody does anything without a hidden financial agenda. Why is the alleged government suddenly taking an interest in how you pay your doctor? Could it be the governments now vested interest as one of the country's biggest employers? The largest burden for GM is a contractual agreement to provide cradle to grave health care. Wouldn't it be nice if they could shift that burden to.. oh i don' know... YOU?

When the same government forced American farmers to default on FHA Baloney Loans, why was it only Willie Nelson who helped bail them out? Which one's were the good guy's again? It's all smoke and mirrors my friends.
Poorly staged town hall rhetoric is nothing more than slight of hand. When was the last time a senator considered your opinion regarding anything?

All you ever have to do is follow the money.

"..."I pray they don't do it in front of his wife."..... is it really OK to say that kind of crap?..."

Yes. In a free society, one not only may, but is encouraged to speak their true feelings with such Crap.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on August 14, 2009, 05:38:43 PM
With absolutely "None" of this horse hockey headed to any public referendum, why are the Politic-rats working so hard to sell it? You don't have a vote on the matter.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 14, 2009, 08:03:36 PM
My jury is still out on this, have been rereading and listening to the new channels and trying to get differant opionions on this, but it seems like everyone is telling a differant story, one says something is not in the bill and anther says it isnt either, but yet when you read tha section it is in there, so i dont really know what the heck is going on.

But in my opinion, us amp's are in for some real trouble when it comes to getting stuff done on our legs or new ones made, especially if we are over 55 and retired like i am. Was going to give all my old legs to my CPO to use the parts for people that cant afford to pay for legs now, but he told me to box them up and keep them for one day i may need them for my self, So that is what i have done. I clean all of my pin/lock liners good and dryed them out and box them up so that they would not get damaged or anything like that, and the legs are standing up in one of our many closets. Just in case i need to use them.

Joe, you have a good point there, what i see is they are afraid that we may vote a bunch of them out of office next year if they cant convice us on this one, I am not a democrat or a republican, and when they ask i decline to state who or what party i am for, i look at it this way it isnt anyone business but my own.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Oneblueleg on August 15, 2009, 02:37:18 PM
I can see how in a wholly capitalistic society it isn't possible to consider that anyone actually might care about anyone's health.
Sad, but there are millions of people in your society that aren't anywhere near as well off as you... but hey... it's their own fault, so why worry about them right?
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 15, 2009, 07:20:44 PM
Many people created their own problem's if they made their bed they can lay in it.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 17, 2009, 05:33:52 AM
I'll be very surprised if any substantive healthcare reform gets passed anytime soon.  While most Americans I hear are saying SOMETHING has to be done to improve healthcare, many are debating just what the changes should be.  But, there's too many vested interests that want to keep it the way it is.  And with our "ingenious" political system in the US, that's likely to be the case.

Before any bill becomes law, it must pass a vote in BOTH houses AND be signed by the President.  And as long as the bill is debated in numerous committees, and possibly voted on the floor, as long as EITHER house drags their feet (or vote No), nothing happens.  Thus, those who want the status quo have a great advantage over those who want change.


Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 17, 2009, 05:52:41 PM
Many Americans don't want or don't think that the illegal immigrates should be covered.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on August 17, 2009, 07:48:17 PM
Snowbear - Please tell which section says that illegal immigrants will be covered. If you read  the text of the proposed healthcare legislation, you will see that  Sec. 246. Prohibits Federal payment for undocumented aliens. Coverage is not provided for anyone not lawfully present in the United 
States. herb 
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 17, 2009, 08:22:45 PM
The total of number uninsured includes the illegals..Look it up..case and point we do not want universal health care. :)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Chippewa on August 18, 2009, 01:17:49 AM
The total of number uninsured includes the illegals..Look it up..case and point we do not want universal health care. :)

I'd love to see a change because our system is broken, but the current proposal (which seems like a ploy to help shift the healthcare portion of government/postal/auto pensions onto the taxpayer) won't do us any good.   

We see prosthetists driving expensive cars and wearing suits while they try to sell us the most expensive product possible.  They add a fishtank overflow valve to the socket, and bill us an extra $600 for suction.  They recommend components with the highest markup instead of giving us the best value for our money.  They tell us that the best way to build a socket is to float us in the socket with a magic (expensive) gel liner that's supposed to make up for the fact that there's no craftsmanship left in the making of sockets.   Our system is set up to reward prosthetists, for quantity of care instead of quality of care, and your prosthetist is happy to bill you for a new leg as often as he can get away with it. 

On a trip to a Canadian hospital, I observed the complete opposite.  There wasn't an incentive to make legs more expensive, but there was an incentive to make them right the first time to save the cost of a redo.  Everybody I saw took a huge amount of pride in their work, and amputees sockets fit well enough to last for years instead of months.  The technicians didn't hesitate to spend time doing extra laminations to make sure everything was perfect, and the prosthetists were craftsmen instead of salesmen.  The amputees there did have to pay a little extra for high end components, but in return they got a better fit than you can buy in the US. 

IMHO we don't need universal healthcare to fix the problems in our healthcare system, but we do need to change the pay structure to reward doctors/hospitals/prosthetists for results rather than procedures and parts. 

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 18, 2009, 03:21:31 AM
Chippewa:

Welcome to the group.

What you say about the healthcare issues makes alot of sense.  My experiences when visiting Canada were similar.

Snowbear:

I agree that illegals should not be getting free healthcare here.  Simply put, they should not BE here!  They should be getting healthcare in their country of origin.  For that matter they shouldn't be in our public schools or prisons, either.  They should be back home.

I welcome legal immigrants, legal guest-workers, legal visitors, of course. But NOT illegals.  If some of them should be here in the U.S., then their presence should be legalized (guest-worker or immigrant status).  If working, they should pay taxes, and so on.

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 18, 2009, 03:02:23 PM
I agree Dick, many immigrants come to the U.S. the legal way work hard and contribute and become U.S. citizens and yes they should receive health care and all they have WORKED for like all  of us. The illegals no they should not receive anything. ::)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on August 19, 2009, 11:16:56 AM


The bad thing about it...illegals are included in the uninsured...that is the way the government will be trying to get around this.  I'm afraid this time though, the people are finally standing up for their rights.  As one lady has said, we are not astro-turf....we are the real grass roots.    :)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 19, 2009, 11:53:10 AM


The bad thing about it...illegals are included in the uninsured...that is the way the government will be trying to get around this.  I'm afraid this time though, the people are finally standing up for their rights.  As one lady has said, we are not AstroTurf....we are the real grass roots.    :)


That's what I was trying to say..Herb. And its just not acceptable no way..Its about time people finally stand up...Love it Ann yes we are real grass roots and hopefull we will win.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: chrysochloridae on August 19, 2009, 12:46:56 PM

I'd love to see a change because our system is broken, but the current proposal (which seems like a ploy to help shift the healthcare portion of government/postal/auto pensions onto the taxpayer) won't do us any good.   

We see prosthetists driving expensive cars and wearing suits while they try to sell us the most expensive product possible. 

IMHO we don't need universal healthcare to fix the problems in our healthcare system, but we do need to change the pay structure to reward doctors/hospitals/prosthetists for results rather than procedures and parts. 


Hi Chippewa,

Its like 1 extreme to the other. in the UK prosthetists have a budget to stick to which must ensure that everybody gets treated - so value for money  is essential. I'd love to prescribe people some of the newest feet and knees that are all singing and all dancing, but i have to be fair to everyone.

Prosthetists don't get paid too well over in the UK, I've  said before about how you can spot the prosthetists attnding any Prosthetics and Orthotics conference because all the prosthetists drive old bangers!

There must be a happy medium between the private and government healthcare? I recon a voucher scheme could work quite well; i.e. the government gives you a cheque for a certain ammount to purchase a limb and a yearly cheque to maintain it - and you could 'top-up' the ammount with private insurance/personal funds if you felt you wanted something above average (e.g. Limblogic system / C-Leg). That way everybody gets something, but if you have the insurance / money you could get something a bit better...

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 19, 2009, 01:50:39 PM
Chrysoc.

The way you describe the UK system makes alot of sense.  That way, everyone gets basic care - no one falls thru the cracks.  Then, if you have extra funds, you can buy optional, top-line stuff.

Here in the U.S., there's a whole smorgasboard of healthcare plans - some paid by govt, some paid by employers, some paid by the individual.  Then, there's the unfortunate ones who have NO healthcare coverage.

Remember, the first goal of private insurance companies is NOT to provide healthcare, but to make a PROFIT.  Thus, they charge as much as possible, and give back as little as possible.  Their eye is always on the "Bottom Line".

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 19, 2009, 05:02:18 PM
have one question for you all, if the health care is to great in the Uk and CANADA, why am reading and hearing that there is up to eight weeks delay in a senior being able to get CHEMO treatment for cancer, and then i also read that a lot of people from CANADA, are coming to the states to have thier operations because of the lead time to get it done up there.

I can say that the system we have right now sucks butter milk in a big way and needs to be worked on, but dont agree with BIG BROTHER taking it over and i sure dont want him in my personal information any more than he already is. With being in the US NAVY for nine years and now am in the VA system, the goverment has more information and know more about me than i do.

I am in a holding pattern on this mess, dont like what i hear and read and now i have heard that the DEMOCRATS have enough votes to push this through without any REPUBLICANS even voting on it or against it.

But to my own opinion, after they get voted in, they become smarter than the ordinary person and know just what we need and dont have to listen to us at all, seem like they put themselves above and dont need our views on anything.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 19, 2009, 05:07:33 PM
Your right Jack many people come to the US for medical treatments. My friends parents come to the US for medical and much faster and better care then in Canada where they live.

I have a friend in the UK who's son has the same thing I do with his leg..He has to wait 6 months for a leg brace..How stupid is that? when its a fragile tibia? No we don't want it here now or ever! :)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on August 20, 2009, 09:30:05 AM
Did anyone see Fox & Friends this morning?  They interviewed their {Canada} top Dr. over health care...she even said theirs was bad...and yes their are alot of people coming to the US for care.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 20, 2009, 11:54:49 AM
Hi Ann, misses you..Yes I did see FOX this morning and its the truth..I have personal friends who live in Canada they moved there after retiring and still come here to the US. Say the Canaidan health care stinks..No way should the US have it.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 20, 2009, 02:07:16 PM
Gotta be a little suspicious of anything that comes out of FOX news.  They appear to be the on-air arm of the Republican Party.  I wonder when FOX says one thing and every other news source, including NPR and BBC, say the opposite.

Sure, we can sit here in the US and hear selective horror-stories out of the Canada healthcare system.  But then, folks can sit in Canada and hear selective horro-stories out of the US healthcare system, right?

You have to look at who is speaking and what axe they have to grind.  Let's face it, the US medical insurance industry and the US medical profession and the US Big Pharma are enjoying almost  unlimited BIG profits.  They have a vested interest in keeping the US system exactly as it is.  They'd be stupid to shoot the Goose that's laying their golden eggs.

Keep that in mind when you hear all the horror stories supposedly coming out of Canada and the UK.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 20, 2009, 02:24:42 PM
FOX ia the only news I watch and trust!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 20, 2009, 06:01:58 PM
Snowbear:

You say: "FOX ia the only news I watch and trust!"

Your choice, of course.  But I believe that would give you a very narrow, very Right-Wing view of the world.

I choose to watch and listen to and read a variety of news sources to get a broader picture of the world affairs.

 
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 20, 2009, 06:13:15 PM
I guess we really can't trust any of them I just prefer FOX over CNN.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on August 20, 2009, 06:21:32 PM
Dick,  how much have you watched Fox News?  They always give both sides when running a news story....which I appreciate.  They are the only news that will actually call Obama on the way he gets around the truth in many instances....THAT is why the Pres. does not like Fox.  JMHO  ;)


Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Danny Y on August 20, 2009, 06:50:49 PM
CNN, FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, BBC................PROPAGANDA!!!!!!!!!!!!

People, we are on the internet! How many of us truly research exactly was is going on without relying on network news? The information is at our fingertips, if only we care to dig a little deeper!

How do CNN And BBC report that World trade center#7 had collapsed twenty minutes or so BEFORE it fell???? You can see the building in the background as BBC was reporting it had fallen! Google it! No plane hit it, hardly any fire, but it totally collapses. Who gave the script to CNN and BBC?  If you want to believe ANYTHING you see or read from mainstream media, I can't argue.

Excuse me, time to say my nightly prayers to Clinton, Bush, Blair, Brown, and Obama.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 21, 2009, 01:26:32 AM
Ann:

The last time I watched FOX News was during the Bush Administration.  It sounded like a propaganda piece straight out of the Bush Whitehouse.  In virtually every story they loudly praised the Bush Administration, and blamed the Democrats for every conceivable ill in the world - even in topics I wouldn't consider political.

At least in THAT program, there were no two sides to any story.  There was a single pro-Bush stance throughout the program.

I could take no more of that one-sided style, and haven't been back since.  Just MHO, your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on August 21, 2009, 07:07:02 AM
Durring the elections all the news stations were bombarded us with Obama it was all one sided. And that is how the idiot got elected. People are followers and can't think for themselves..Now they are sorry they voted for the this arrogant one.

Have a good weekend! going away for the weekend.! :)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on August 21, 2009, 10:27:02 AM
Have a good one 'snowbear'
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Jeff Jester on August 21, 2009, 05:45:09 PM
Canadian health care bad? When I lost my leg in Singapore, I went back to Canada and guess who supplied me with a top of the line leg? Canadian health care and that even though I had not lived in Canada for 12 years. I was able to go to one of the top sports doctors in Alberta, no cost, recieved all my rehabiltaion no cost, my leg no cost. Oh I lied, there was a cost; Alberta health care premiums I had to pay, then about $60 a month and Blue Cross about $25 a month. Does any body believe if an American had the same experience and went back to the States he would recieve the same treatment? For every horror story people hear about the Canadian system, I can find you 100 Canadians that will tell you different. Like the news, you only hear from the bad or the dissatified.
When my father had cancer, he was given top notch care and when he decided to die at home, home care as in nurses was supplied to help daily in his house. He didn't have to pay anything extra.
As for someone retiring and then moving to Canada, Should they expect free health care when they have never paid into it and are not Canadians? What right do they have to complain? Better they move back to the States and enjoy their retirement there.
Of all my friends that I keep in contact with in Canada, I have never heard any of them complain of our health care system.
I would never say the American system is bad; you know why? Because I have never lived there, so Americans should not say our system is bad if they do not live there.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Genki_rockets on August 21, 2009, 06:26:23 PM
I am really embarrassed by ignorant folks who bad mouth Canadian or British health system. Did any of them ever check WHO report on world health system ranking?  Countries like Costa Rica and Colombia provide better health care than the U.S. while spending 1/10 of what the U.S. spends.  In terms of care/$$ ratio, the U.S. ranks dead last in the world. Geez.

In the meanwhile insurance companies are making billion dollar profit & their CEOs are making millions of dollars in salary, not even including stock options. 

The saddest part of all this is that insurance companies are paying people to go to these townhall meeting and viciously attack Senators and Congressmen trying to hold meaningful discussion. 

If the reform fails, it will only hurt those who are already the most venerable.  If the reform succeed, all these insurance companies will eventually go out of business.  What do you think?  If you asked me, Obama has less than 0% chance of succeeding.  Insurance companies have billions and billions of dollars in their disposal to stop this health reform.  They can buy off every single citizen in the U.S. if they have to. 

So I mean, please.  There is no point in even arguing about this.  Out insurance companies will make sure status quo isn't disturbed.  But please stop bad mouthing other countries' health system.  It's just really embarrassing.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on August 22, 2009, 12:25:51 PM
Hi Snow - I take a few trips every year to canada and recently the conversation always turns to healthcare. I have yet to meet a single canadian that is unhappy with their system or travels to the US for care. On my last trip a met a couple from boston who retired and moved to Canada. They  love the canadian system of healthcare and told me they never have to wait for any medical service. This last winter I had an infection in my residual leg. When it got worse after taking antibiotics, my gp told me to go to the er. After a six hour wait and a few tests, they sent me home with a new antibiotic that did no good. The bill was over $2000 for a useless visit. We need a change in our system. A lot of people are afraid of change mostly due to all the lies that are being spread about the proposed changes. Did you watch NBC news last night? There was a story about the concerns that illegal aliens would be covered under the proposed legislation. They reported than that is another of the many lies being spread. It seems that the people who are opposed to the legislation can never accurately quote the articles in the legislation that deal with their fears. I doubt if the people opposed to the legislation have read a single page of the legislation. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 22, 2009, 12:46:11 PM
Thank you, Genki and Jeff:

You both said it so well.  Of course, insurance companies are working overtime to defeat any chnage in the healthcare system.  They succeeded when Clinton came into office, and they're trying again today.  Sadly, they don't have to buy off millions of Americans - they just have to buy off a majority of the Congress.  And, as you say, they have the deep pockets to do so.

There is a wee bit of hope.  There's a reason that the voters sent to Republicans packing and gave Democrats a majority in both Houses of Congress - and the Whitehouse, too.  Now, let the Democrats unite and listen to the voters, and bring some long-needed change.  I don't suppose that the propsals are perfect in every respect, BUT they sure beat doing nothing.

The amount that I pay for heathcare is outrageous:  Out-of-pocket costs + Medicare premiums (deducted from my Social Security pension + supplemental insurance premiums + co-pays.......


Oh yes, Snowbear, here is one American who is NOT unhappy that Obama got elected.  He sure beat the alternative.  I am so glad that the Bush-Cheney era is over.  But, that's another story...
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 22, 2009, 12:57:07 PM
Herb:

My experience in Canada, too.  While vacationing in Canada (Ontario), I needed immediate care in the ER for an infected wound.  The care was immediate - and excellent.  As a visitor, I expected to pay, and not free-load off of Canadian taxpayers.  Total charge for the ER was just $35.  And the antibiotic prescription cost roughly 1/2 of what it would cost in the U.S.  The drug was manufactured in the U.S., so the same quality I would have received at home.

Sounds like a pretty good system to me.   :)   How about you?

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Robogirl on August 22, 2009, 04:58:22 PM
Yes!  The insurance companies and those that have interest in them are spreading rumors and banking on the fear that they create.  My husband travels for business and has had the occasion to require medical treatment in different countries. He received EXCELLENT care each time at no cost to him. He said one of the best healthcare systems was in Taiwan, where an avg. family of 4 must pay $650/year, but all medical expenses are covered. They also have the option to get private insurance through their employers or on their own.  I think the U.S. has one of the most creative systems of government in the world, built on the foundation that its power comes from and is legitimized by the people. However, if our citizens are sick, then our goverment and our country are sick. It's time to lock the door on the political agendas as well as ignorant fear, and recognize who we are - human beings! We should work together as human beings who care about one another to create a new system of health care that is affordable and provides world-class service.  Until then, I agree with those of you who think our current healthcare system is out of control.   Just my humble opinion.   :)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 23, 2009, 08:54:13 AM
This is a question to HERB, have you read the whole bill, well i have and it still scares the heck out of me and if you would read section 59B and section152 you will see that all non citizens are eligible for heath care at no cost to them, maybe i am reading it wrong. but that is the way i see it and have read three differant versions of the HR 3200 bill and see that same thing, And when some one questions me on something that has been said about the bill i go back and read up on the section that has the information about what is being talked about.

And for CANADA and the UK,  if you are under retirement age, from what i have found and read it is great for them, but after that look out. And this morning i read that they dont think that you need pain killers for cronic back pain, need to research this out more when i can, and as i stated before, if it is so good why are a lot of older CANADIANS coming to the states to have thier operations done, and the eight week wait to get CHEMO THERAPY, for cancer treatment, I have has the chance to talk to some CANADIANS about this and yes they brag it up until you really pin them down and get the truth out of them.

ROBOGIRL, that is the very reason why every one that is elegible to vote need to do it and get some of those people out of there, look back at the last election and read up on how many people actually got out and voted and the off year like next year will even be worse.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on August 23, 2009, 09:27:00 AM
Hi Jack - I have scrolled down through the entire bill and I can not find the sec. 59B you refer to. The bill starts with sec. 100. Sec. 152 refers to a prohibition on discrimination. You find similar language in every bill that provides government services or contracts. Sec. 246. specifically prohibits Federal payment for undocumented aliens. Coverage is not provided for anyone not lawfully present in the United
States. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Minerva on August 23, 2009, 01:53:06 PM
I've been popping in and out, reading this thread - coming from the UK, sometimes it's been easy to read and other times not.

We're in a slightly different situation over here, in that the powers that be seem to be pushing for a US style of healthcare. This frightens people like me as the UK doesn't have an established health insurance system like the US (e.g. insurance companies would not insure an amputee who didn't not already have health cover for their prosthetic care) and so there would be a large proportion of the population who would either have second rate healthcare or no healthcare for established conditions. Here's an official version of the NHS debate ~ http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/Browsable/DH_5204614 (please note that it says that 'GW' was also thinking about healthcare reform before he left office).

My personal remedy for the NHS would be to get rid of some of the (severely over paid IMHO) managers and concentrate funding in clinical areas. However, that is unlikely to happen (as the managers hold the purse strings) and the extra money would only be a stop gap. A good workable solution, I think, would be to adopt the French/German style of healthcare, where much of the healthcare is free if you need it (you need that for people who can not, for whatever reason, get health cover) and you can fund some of it yourself through top up health insurance.

I personally hope that your health care reforms are passed as it seems, from over the water, very unfair that so many Americans (20% isn't it?) do not have the healthcare they need and that insurance companies are profiting (often outrageously) from people's illness. And, unfortunately, what happens over there will impact on what the NHS managers decide to do over here.

I don't know, it always seems to be the people with the money who use their influence to get their own way, doesn't it?  ::)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 23, 2009, 05:28:44 PM
Pegleg Jack:

There seem to be various versions of the HB 3200.  I would be very leery of any version that is provided to you by any party that is opposed to the healthcare reform - that would include the AMA, insurance industry, Big Pharma, or the Republican Party, among others.  It is too easy for them to doctor the text to suit their aims - namely to scare people away from healthcare reform.

I would believe that the ONLY TRUE version is that provided directly by the Government Printing Office - not some reproduction/revision provided by other sources.

When making decisions, be sure you are reading the real McCoy!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 23, 2009, 05:45:12 PM
Minerva:

Let's hope that the worst that plagues the US healthcare system can't swim the Atlantic in your direction.

It may be summer here, but the opponents of healthcare care reform are giving us quite a "snow-job", trying desperately to scare everyone away.

As you can see, some of the opponents quoting HB 3200, are actually quoting some fanciful revsions, rather than the true bill.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on August 23, 2009, 07:56:54 PM
Hi Jack - here is a link to the actual bill being proposed that I have been reading.

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/publications/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 23, 2009, 09:14:55 PM
that 59b, is on page167 of your link, and then to you and dick if this is so good of a health plan please tell why our congessmen and women and senators have exempt them selfs from having to use it is it is so good for us, that is another thing that scares me, if it is not good enough for them then i dont think that it will do much for us.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 24, 2009, 12:00:55 AM
PL Jack:

Bingo.  You hit the nail on the head.  I said the same thing in reverse.  "Just give us the same taxpayer-paid healthcare plan that Congressmembers, Senators, and the President enjoy."  They don't have to invent some new plan - - Just think of all the paper they could save.

Oh yeah, and give us amps the same fully-paid state-of-the-art prosthetics they're giving the soldiers at Walter Reed.  e.g. If C-Legs are the going trend at Walter Reed, why is my insurance company allowed to dis-allow them as being "experimental"?
 
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: stinker373 on August 24, 2009, 12:18:19 AM
Jack, where did you get the info for the canadian coverage after 65? I want to do some reading on that.  tks
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Genki_rockets on August 24, 2009, 01:54:29 AM
This is a question to HERB, have you read the whole bill, well i have and it still scares the heck out of me and if you would read section 59B and section152 you will see that all non citizens are eligible for heath care at no cost to them, maybe i am reading it wrong. but that is the way i see it and have read three differant versions of the HR 3200 bill and see that same thing, And when some one questions me on something that has been said about the bill i go back and read up on the section that has the information about what is being talked about.

non-resident aliens are aliens holding B-1/2 (tourist), F-1 (student), H-1B (Indians who work at Microsoft), etc.  non-resident alien does not mean ilegal aliens.  ilegal aliens are refered to as "undocumented" and any federal bill would refer to ilegals as "undocumented."  finally, resident aliens are greencard holders. no they are not US citizens but they pay taxes just like rest of us.  they just don't get to vote.

this is a typical problem w lay people trying to read bills or propositions.  special interests can so easily mislead them.  Obama came out publicly & stated in plain English that ilegals won't be covered.  any lawyer reading this knows this.  Yet Republicans and insurance companies had field day claiming how wetbacks gonna get covered under Obama health care plan.

um.. also, while this is totally not related, I just want to add that Obama needs to be removed from the office since he wasn't born in the U.S.  do you guys know that other than the highly suspicious brith certificate, there is no single witness, no hospital record, no nothing to prove that Obama was born in the U.S.? 
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on August 24, 2009, 09:51:55 AM
Hi jack - thanks for the help finding sec 59B. I see that it a reference to the internal revenue tax code and only will affect people that do not participate in any insurance program. thanks herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Minerva on August 24, 2009, 02:39:41 PM
Minerva:

Let's hope that the worst that plagues the US healthcare system can't swim the Atlantic in your direction.

It may be summer here, but the opponents of healthcare care reform are giving us quite a "snow-job", trying desperately to scare everyone away.

As you can see, some of the opponents quoting HB 3200, are actually quoting some fanciful revsions, rather than the true bill.


Thank you, Dick. :)

What with the injustice (i.e. so many Americans not getting the healthcare they need) and all the fuss that other people seem to be creating - it just seems so silly from over here. Propaganda (and, let's face it, it's usually aimed at undermining something) is a very dangerous thing. People need to embrace change and think about how it could benefit so many other people. The frightening thing, as I mentioned before, is that what happens over there will impact over here.

I wish you all the luck in the world!!! 
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on August 24, 2009, 03:58:29 PM
Hi. Or should I say Hi "Folks" since we all "Folks" now.
I just returned from a week at the east coast beech. I needed some rest after that awful week of surviving American health care. I so hope they've resolved that garlic issue. I started in Cape May and followed the hurricane north. The surfing was fantastic. I was amazed to watch all the weather reports saying how terrible the storms were. In reality, it only rained once and that was at night. I wonder why people believe something based on who they hear it from?

 Does anyone else remember a time when private, for profit, hospitals would often turn people away because they had no health insurance? I am told, as folks, that there are Millions of uninsured "Folks" . Where are all these dead body's we're portrayed as stepping over, wringing our greedy little hands as we grind their bones to make our bread? Why is there such urgency?

Why are "Folks" working so hard to sell us "Folks" what we don't need or want? We have many hospitals in my area. If you look close you will not see any "Folks" waiting at the doors. In fact, if you look even closer you will see many hospitals paying millions for advertising. "We have Cyberknife". "We're 'Top Docs third year in a row". "Come to Cooper". "Come see the new Paoli". I'm told it's worth it for the 5 star cuisine alone.

Wheres the wienie? I see the bun but I don't see the wienie. Where are all the "Folks" dieing in the streets? Sure we can go back to non profit hospitals, free clinics add some dental and eyecare into the mix. There will always be private care and there will always be someone who thinks he's not getting as good as the next "Folk". Do you really think a scalpel is sharper depending on how it's paid for? Some people do.

There are actually people who think their Bypass surgery was better because it was done by Dr. Dumbasski at Ludicrous General and yours wasn't. The first thing you need to sell is to make the government believe it can legislate human nature. I don't think anyone should worry about whats going on here spreading about the world. 'Cept OBL.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 24, 2009, 04:30:49 PM
Joe, a good point and well taken, and yes i do remember that happening all over the USA, BUT for some reason it didnt happen the way they said it would and we were not walking over a lot of dead bodies as the said we would, and also that fact that some for provite hospital were in fact turning people that didnt have insurance, they would load them up in a ambulance and send them to the county or state hospital to be taken care of. But it seemed like everyone got taken care of,

After reading most all of the new health care bill, i feet i dont need any more goverment officails getting into my personnal affairs, it is bad enough now being on social security and fighting the VA to get my compansasion straightened out, and then they say it may take over a year to get that done.

P.S. good to hear that you have a good vacation.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 24, 2009, 05:27:27 PM
Hi, Joe:

Glad you had a nice vacation at the Shore.  We just got back from a nice week in Massachusetts.  We got to see many relatives and a new amputee friend - - and ate some of those tasty crusty critters (lobsters) and some good quahog chowdah.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on August 25, 2009, 07:32:03 PM
Hi, Joe:

Glad you had a nice vacation at the Shore.  We just got back from a nice week in Massachusetts.  We got to see many relatives and a new amputee friend - - and ate some of those tasty crusty critters (lobsters) and some good quahog chowdah.




Dick, what is quahog chowdah?  I hope it isn't what I'm thinking !!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 25, 2009, 09:22:01 PM
Quahog is a common variety of clam.  Hence, clam chowder, the New England type.  Add a Bostonian accent, and it becomes "chowdah".

We Bostonians have a way of losing "r" in some words and adding "r" to other words.  "Chowder" becomes "chowdah"   "Car" beccomes "cah", but "idea" becomes "i-dear".

OK, so I've been in Pennsylvania so long that I lost most of my accent, but it does come back to me, now and then.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on August 27, 2009, 08:38:50 AM
Dick the same goes for me down here in TEXAS, my other relitives are saying that i am starting to get the TEXAS drawl, could have been down here for over 3 years now.

But getting bck to the health care bit, i see where the DEMOCRATS are hiring people to go to the REPUBLICAN town hall meetings to disrupt them, wage scale is between 10 to 15 per hour.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on August 28, 2009, 02:56:20 PM
Try flipping back and forth between South Philly, Maui and Pa. Dutch. Then wonder why our Brit friends don't understand us? So getting back to health care....

Quahogs are a clam about the size of the palm of your hand. While they can be a bit chewy they offer a delightfully robust flavor that doesn't diminish when cooked in a chowder. While I preffer, "New England" style myself along with Idaho potatoes, they serve any clam recipe as well. Are they good for you? I don't know. I know Lobster is not recommended for those who need to watch their sugar and cholesterol. Pregnant women should never eat the "tamale". All things considered, it's probably healthier to eat the shell.

I wonder who will take up the cause now that Teddy passed?

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on August 28, 2009, 08:45:02 PM
Joe:

Actually, lobster meat is quite good for ya.  Healthier than so much red meat.  I never touch the tamale - even if I'm not pregnant.  Tail's the best, with claws coming in second.  Try for 1 to 1.5 pounders (chix).  If they get too big, they get woody.

As for the shells - a bit crunchy for my tastes.

Hard to find a decent lobster (pronounced Lobsta' back home) in Philly.  Gotta settle for the cheese-steaks here.


As for accents, I mix South Philly, PA Dutch, Bostonian, and the Cape (Buzzards Bay side).  My wife throws Down East into the mix.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on August 29, 2009, 08:21:59 AM
Hi Joe - lobsters are very popular in New Hampster. They do not contain any carbohydrates and less that 10% the fat of an average cut of beef. Half the fat is cholesterol but it is all very good cholesterol. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on August 29, 2009, 07:18:08 PM
I see. So if it tastes good then it must good for you? I don't eat any red meat at all unless you consider Tuna, Shark or Swordfish red meat. Lightly grilled with a soupcon of Amish butter, a hint of fresh basil and a thin slice of fresh lemon. Probably the Bay season that's bad for you.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on August 29, 2009, 09:44:33 PM
Hi joe - it s great that you do not eat red meat. I stopped eating most meat except seafood back in the 60s. I am fond of all the fish you mentioned. I see lots of warnings about mercury in fish, especially the larger species. I have fished in some rivers near pittsburg that had signs posted along the banks saying that it was alright to fish but not alright to eat the fish due to pcbs. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Minerva on September 02, 2009, 01:44:45 PM
Does anyone else remember a time when private, for profit, hospitals would often turn people away because they had no health insurance? I am told, as folks, that there are Millions of uninsured "Folks" . Where are all these dead body's we're portrayed as stepping over, wringing our greedy little hands as we grind their bones to make our bread? Why is there such urgency?

Perhaps you live in such a nice part of the US that you don't see the angst some people have over funding their healthcare? I'm sure that if you tried hard enough you wouldn't find bodies exactly, but you would find people in very poor health and amputees who can't get funding for their limbs (I've come across a few online and I don't even live there!).

Quote
I don't think anyone should worry about whats going on here spreading about the world. 'Cept OBL.

I'm afraid this comment shows how ignorant you are about how the US influences the rest of the world, Joe.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on September 05, 2009, 08:10:06 PM

Here is link to an article about real death panels that exist today. My little brother died because he was denied the treatment that would have cured his cancer that was prescribed by his team of physicans.
Rejection of care is a very lucrative business for the insurance giants.

The top 18 insurance giants racked up $15.9 billion in profits last year. One way they make those profits is by denying standard care procedures because they are "experimental". That is the reason most insurance companies give for denying coverage for good prosthetics such as the c-leg.  Herb
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS202570+02-Sep-2009+PRN20090902
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on September 06, 2009, 03:25:01 PM
Herb, are you talking about your little brother?  If so, I am very sorry...but I still do not want government health care.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on September 06, 2009, 05:27:39 PM
Hi Ann - my little brother had lymph cancer that went to his brain. The doctors were convinced that he would be cured by an auto stem bone marrow transplant. The insurance company said no. He gathered lots of study results and statistics and letters from doctors to present in an appeal. the insurance company took 9 months to approve the appeal. By then his cancer had weakened him so much that he could not get the treatment and he died. It is a common practice for insurance companies to deny and they hope the patient dies so they do not have to pay for treatment. I have rear that the insurance companies deny over 25% of expensive claims. I just read a story about a woman with breast cancer who had her policy canceled because she had not listed on her medical history when she signed up for the policy that she had had acne when she was a teenager. She died because she could not pay for the treatment she needed. The insurance company paid a big bonus to the employee who discovered that she had not listed her acne on her application. A few years ago my son fell off a horse and cracked his scull. He needed emergency surgery. I took him to the hospital. First thing they asked for my insurance card. I gave it to the admissions person and she called the insurance company to get authorization. A few months later the insurance company denied that they had approved the emergency treatment and insisted that I had to pay an additional $23,000. just because they had not logged that call. The system that we have now works fine for some people, but there are too many people that are denied coverage when they really need it. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Oneblueleg on September 07, 2009, 09:30:32 AM
Hi Ann - my little brother had lymph cancer that went to his brain. The doctors were convinced that he would be cured by an auto stem bone marrow transplant. The insurance company said no. He gathered lots of study results and statistics and letters from doctors to present in an appeal. the insurance company took 9 months to approve the appeal. By then his cancer had weakened him so much that he could not get the treatment and he died. It is a common practice for insurance companies to deny and they hope the patient dies so they do not have to pay for treatment. I have rear that the insurance companies deny over 25% of expensive claims. I just read a story about a woman with breast cancer who had her policy canceled because she had not listed on her medical history when she signed up for the policy that she had had acne when she was a teenager. She died because she could not pay for the treatment she needed. The insurance company paid a big bonus to the employee who discovered that she had not listed her acne on her application. A few years ago my son fell off a horse and cracked his scull. He needed emergency surgery. I took him to the hospital. First thing they asked for my insurance card. I gave it to the admissions person and she called the insurance company to get authorization. A few months later the insurance company denied that they had approved the emergency treatment and insisted that I had to pay an additional $23,000. just because they had not logged that call. The system that we have now works fine for some people, but there are too many people that are denied coverage when they really need it. Herb

I am incredibly sorry for your sad loss Herb, that kind of thing shouldn't happen.
That and the story about your son and the emergency treatment yet again reminds me how precious our NHS is. There are debates and disputes about treatment and costs, though these things rarely get in the way of giving people treatment at the time they really need it, certainly no one EVER gets charged $23,000 for emergency treatment!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on September 08, 2009, 09:53:59 AM
Thank you One Blue Leg

Here is a link to an article I saw on MSNBC this morning about insurance companies' practice of canceling policies just when people need coverage.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32729358/ns/health-more_health_news/
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Mitchee on September 08, 2009, 10:22:41 AM
Hi Herb.  Thanks for the links to the articles about the horrors of the health insurance industry. 

The health insurance industry is not about providing you with health care, it's about profits.  I would love to see major changes, especially in the areas of eliminating pre-existing conditions, eliminating the ability to delay medically necessary procedures/treatments and eliminating the ability to cancel coverage for asinine reasons.  If those areas were changed, the health insurance industry would probably go bankrupt and we would have gov't run health care.  For me, I don't care if we have gov't health care or insurance companies.  I just want a system that works better than what we have now.

Michelle
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on September 08, 2009, 11:09:10 AM
Yes. I am completely ignorant of how the U.S. influences the world. I'm having a tough enough time getting by in this country without having  to worry about another. I will never forget the year I had my taxes done when the CPA passed the papers to me to sign saying, "Congratulations you have reached the 39% tax bracket". That's 39% to the Federal government. Plus another 2.2% to the state(s) where it was earned along with 1 to 1.5% to local municipality Plus per capita's and write to work fees and guess what it leaves you? Still a lot of money but that's not the point. The point is that why do I have to carry the burden's of the whole world on my shoulders?

Is the world a better place for taking half my income? It all looks the same to me. It is easy to see the insurers as bad guys but based on my own personal experience of people I have known with cancer, all had unlimited resources and insurance. All but one of them are dead. One was too far along for treatment. He was just kept comfortable as he died but several others had Stem Cell and marrow transplants running beyond 4 Million dollars each. All it bought them was perhaps a few more years of time. Each had to spend most of that time running back to the hospitals two or three times per week. Radiation burns, Lymphoma etc., etc. All things considered. If blessed with cancer I think I would relax and go back to my Macanudo's and Scotch.

My daughter is still surviving her cancer but who knows for how long? Believe me when I say it is not something that money or insurance can buy you out of.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Mitchee on September 08, 2009, 11:54:04 AM
It is easy to see the insurers as bad guys but based on my own personal experience of people I have known with cancer, all had unlimited resources and insurance.

Hi Joe.  You must have great health insurance.  By the sounds of your coverage, I wish my health insurance coverage was half as good as yours.  I used to work for one of the health insurance giants and my coverage from them wasn't all that great.  I have better coverage through my current employer than I did when I worked for a health insurance company.  My mom works for a hospital and her health insurance coverage isn't all that great either.  My father passed away from Leukemia and he had max'd out his lifetime limits before he died.  My mom was left with over 100 grand in debt because the health insurance company didn't have to pay it.  My mom certainly didn't have unlimited resources to pay the debt.  Who thinks that they are going to ever use a million or 2 in coverage?  My dad never thought he would.  He wasn't sick a day in his life and never used the insurance plan until he was diagnosed with Leukemia.  So he should work hard, pay his premiums and not be covered when he needed it?  He didn't have a say in how much the lifetime cap was.  His employer provided the coverage and thought that they had a good health insurance plan for their employees.  His employer thought that the lifetime cap would be adequate.  Needless to say, after my dad was diagnosed with Leukemia his employer found out that their plan wasn't as great as they thought it was. 

Most policies have lifetime caps and most people don't have unlimited resources.  Should you pay for my coverage? No, but I work and I should be entitled to good health insurance coverage too. 

Michelle
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Minerva on September 16, 2009, 07:27:16 AM
About 10 years ago my mother was successfully treated, by the NHS, for NHL (a form of lymphoma). At the time the survival rate for people with NHL was very low, so they used several very strong chemotherapy drugs on her to boost her predicted survival rate. Although the treatment involved surgery and massive bouts of both chemotherapy and radiotherapy, the only thing my parents had to pay for was hospital car parking. As those of you who have had family members with cancer know, the whole family is affected. To have to worry about money for treatment as well as the sick relative would IMHO be quite devastating!

I was contemplating posting something about Mr Carter here, but I decided to post this instead - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6193779/Leading-doctors-defend-the-NHS.html and ask if you feel that the opinion of doctors should hold some weight in this debate? After all, it's doctors, along with nurses and clinicians, who do all the treatments isn't it? 
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on September 16, 2009, 07:52:40 PM
Hi Sue - thanks for posting the article.We seem to have a lot of stubborn people in this country who will not change their mind about health care no matter what. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on September 17, 2009, 08:06:30 PM
Here is a link to an article about the 45,000 people who die needlessly in this country every year due to no insurance and inability to get medical care. Herb

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32882064/ns/health-health_care/
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on September 18, 2009, 02:26:22 PM
Personally, I feel we should cover everyone for everything. I have only 3 exceptions to the bill as proposed

1. I am a Christian man and as such do not want my tax money used to murder unborn infants. I will not halt or falter on that position. Consider these words as chiseled in stone. Someone must stand for these silent dead. I will be happy to do so.
2. I do not want to provide free health care to illegal aliens. Let them come. Let them come from every country on Earth. Under every flag. Let them taste sweet Liberty. Give them something worth defending. We have Billions of acres of wide opened undeveloped land. 40 Acres and a Mule.

3. I don't believe in euthanasia, assisted suicide. Yes I have seen far more than my share of suffering but the hour of your death is not your call my friend. That is Gods call right to the minute. Who are we to assume God Almighty needs Sammys tribunal to make his decisions for him?
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on September 18, 2009, 04:26:25 PM
Hi Joe - I think every citizen and legal resident should be covered with the same basic plan. Everyone from birth to death should pay the exact same amount - their fair share of medical costs. People who are unable to pay should get help from the government until they can pay. The government should not be involved in decisions regarding suicide or abortion but if that is what someone chooses, it should be covered. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on September 19, 2009, 03:33:34 AM
Joe amd Herb:

Regarding Abortion. let me use an analogy that we are all too familiar with -- Amputation.  I think we all agree that we'd not recommend Amputation as a cure for flat feet or ingrown toenails.  We'd use every reasonable attempt to save our feet and legs, right?  (And many of us have done just that.)

But, there comes that rare circumstance (less than 1%) that Amputation is the best solution to save a life or make life alot more bearable.  It is our last resort, never to be taken lightly.  Either we lost a limb in a tragic, sudden accident, and had to pick up what's left and move on in life.  OR, we faced infection, maiming or whatever, and had to make a decisioin to amputate.

WE had to make that painful decision with the help of doctors and loved ones.  The decision wasn't made in Washington or in courts, nor should it be.

Likewise, with Abortion, I would view it as a last resort decision, to be made only when the alternative would more devastaing.  Never to be taken lightly.  Hopefully in a very small % of the time.  A decision made by the woman and he mate, with the help and guidance of of her doctor.  Not a decision to be made by politicians.

When the mother's life is at high risk?  Do you sacrifice the mother's life, leaving her other children motherless, on the off-chance you MIGHT save the unborn ionfant?

Or in the case of the rape of a young child?  Do you tell a petite scared 12-year-old child, "Tough noogies, kid.  That tiny embryo that was forced upon you is more important than you are.  Just suck a gut, and take what's coming to you."?   

Such extreme cases as these.  Again, not a matter for politicians to decide.

I would no more say that Abortion should NEVER be allowed, than to say that Amputation should NEVER be allowed.

If your beliefs and convictions are such that you NEVER accept an Abortion, no matter the consequences, then you have that choice.  BUT, you do not have the right to force that belief and conviction onto evryone else.

(The same would be true for Amputation.)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on September 19, 2009, 03:02:50 PM
Your extreme cases I agree with Dick in regard to abortion...but we all know that is not what is going to happen.  Every gal that takes a chance and gets an unwanted pregnancy will be having an abortion.  They use it as birth control & the rest of us ends up paying for it. 

I agree with Joe.  We can't allow illegal people to continue on our lists of covered health care.  We will do well paying for our own US citizens.  If our money grew on trees, no problem, but it doesn't.  I am one of the stubborn citizens and proud of it.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on September 20, 2009, 10:31:31 AM
Joe and Ann, while i was on my road trip i heard but have been able to really  check it out put they changed the section of to bill so that the illegals could not get health care, but at this time i dont trust the DEMO'S on changing anything as of yet. still waiting to see what they are going to comeup with this week, now the the REPUB'S Are starting to get into it.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on September 20, 2009, 01:40:30 PM
Jack:

I believe Obama said it very clearly in his Congressional speech, that Illegals would NOT be covered.  I know that those who don't want reform keep harping on the illegals, but it shouldn't be an issue -- no one is proposing they be covered.  As I see it, it's just a smokescreen to try and de-rail attempts at reform.

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: chrysochloridae on September 21, 2009, 06:03:26 PM
Hi Ann - my little brother had lymph cancer that went to his brain. The doctors were convinced that he would be cured by an auto stem bone marrow transplant. The insurance company said no.

Just been reading though the posts on this topic and read this from Herb,

I'm sorry for your loss Herb, it seems so, so wrong to me that some guy in a suit has the right to decide who gets what treatment based on costs. I work in the NHS and it is hard, you're faced with alot of tough choices and try to make a tiny budget stretch around alot of people - but at least everyone gets some treatment, basic as it sometimes is. I'm grateful for what we have over here
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on September 23, 2009, 08:24:59 PM
Thank you Chrysochloridae for your remarks about my brother. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on September 27, 2009, 10:37:01 AM
As for abortion I respect a woman's rights as granted under the Constitution. I also respect a persons right to pursue perdition over salvation. When my life is over I will find friends and family in Heaven or Hell. If people have not seen enough to know right from wrong then sit back and watch what's coming.

We can't stall the issue with "Basic" benefits. It must be the full magilla for everyone or we create that ever popular wool suited Boogie Man. The four horsemen draw so near we can hear their thunder. Listen for the trumpets
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on September 28, 2009, 01:52:35 PM
As for abortion I respect a woman's rights as granted under the Constitution. I also respect a persons right to pursue perdition over salvation. When my life is over I will find friends and family in Heaven or Hell. If people have not seen enough to know right from wrong then sit back and watch what's coming.

We can't stall the issue with "Basic" benefits. It must be the full magilla for everyone or we create that ever popular wool suited Boogie Man. The four horsemen draw so near we can hear their thunder. Listen for the trumpets



Joe, If everything thats in the health bill is OK, then why all the grass roots uprising?  Aren't we already paying for the uninsured with their medicade cards?  What more do they want....and I don't care what our President says....we will be paying for illegals!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on September 28, 2009, 03:34:07 PM
Ann:

Bottom line for Illegals - - send them HOME.  If they need healthcare, let 'em use their home country's healthcare.

Anyone who's here legally, fine.

If they want to emmigrate and stay here, then go thru the proper channels like everyone else.  Get documented, pay taxes, and join our society - legally.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on September 29, 2009, 08:50:42 AM
did you all see it on the news last night that some of the demo's want to let the illegal in on this deal if they want to pay for it.

I personnally think that is a bunch of crap.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on September 29, 2009, 09:26:06 AM
Ann:

Bottom line for Illegals - - send them HOME.  If they need healthcare, let 'em use their home country's healthcare.

Anyone who's here legally, fine.

If they want to emmigrate and stay here, then go thru the proper channels like everyone else.  Get documented, pay taxes, and join our society - legally.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on September 29, 2009, 09:27:55 AM
Ann:

Bottom line for Illegals - - send them HOME.  If they need healthcare, let 'em use their home country's healthcare.

Anyone who's here legally, fine.

If they want to emmigrate and stay here, then go thru the proper channels like everyone else.  Get documented, pay taxes, and join our society - legally.




Dick, I can't believe we actually agree on something.    :)   That's exactly the correct thing to do.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on September 30, 2009, 07:24:02 PM
JUst some more that i have recieved and heard on the news about this mess. it seems if you dont get or buy the health plan, you can be fined up to 1900.00 and then if you dont buy the plan they can arrest you and fine you 25,000.00 plus a year in graybar motel.

and this is going out to all of you on MEDICARE, have heard and read that the top 10% of doctors that treat us on medicare and send in the most claims are to be penilized for it, if this happen look out cause we wont be able to find a doctor to treat us, for the fear of being in that top 10%.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on October 01, 2009, 01:12:00 AM
PL Jack:

Where are you getting this stuff?  This is the first I've heard anything about jail time for not buying insurance.  Sounds like more anti-reform scare-tactics to me.  Does this come from the same people who brought us the ficticious "death panels"?

As soon as I catch someone in a flat-out LIE, then tend not to believe anything else they say. 
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on October 01, 2009, 07:46:34 PM
Hi Jack - in articles I read this week in the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times, the penalties being discussed were between $750 and $1500 for a family. No jail time was mentioned. There would be waivers for poor people. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on October 02, 2009, 09:48:18 AM
Herb and Dick was watching NBC NEWS last night and it was showing a section of the SENATE discussing this very same thing and the senator stated the very same figures that i stated. and there was nothing mentioned about any waivers.

I got the information from a site that i trust to print the truth and it is

AMERICAN FAMILY ASSOCIATION ACTION ALERT, have gotten some real good information for them and thier news letters that i get via my email and they are an indepent association and not polical group.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on October 02, 2009, 01:10:54 PM
Jack:

The American Fammily Association, as I remember it, was a very Right Wing Fundamentalist Christian organization - religious in orientation, but very much pro-Bush, pro-Republican a few years ago.  As such, I would hardly say they were non-political.  Hardly neutral or "indepemdent".

As such, I could see them standing with Republivans in resisting healthcare reform.

Therefore, if other sources are saying there is no mention of jail-time,I would tend to believe them.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on October 02, 2009, 04:56:20 PM
Dick, if you fell that you think, i have been fabricating what i have put up on here is your choice, but i for one havent lied on anything so far, and yes i listen to GLEN BECK ON FOX.NEWS, and so far most of what he has said has come about and showed that is was actually in the bill it self.

I have been called a racist, terrorist and  a moron and a few other choice names that are not printable on here, just because i have question the fact i dont like what i have read about and heard about this new health care bill.

When he got elected i was going to give him the benifit of doubt, until he tried to get our boys coming back from IRAG and AFAGANISTAN to help pay for there medical treatment, that is when i turned agianst him.
And then when the leader of the house NANCY P. come on national tv and calls us morons for questioning the bill and that we should shut up and let them do what they think they need to do.

This is a free world and you have the right to dissagree with me, but dont label me a lirer.

Most of what i have posted has come from SENATOR BAUCUS'S - AMERICA'S HEALTHY FUTURE ACT.

Just wanted you to know that i am not picking on the president just because he is black as a lot of people are saying that we are doing, i dont care if he was yellow, red, green or any color, i would do the same thing that i am doing now.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on October 03, 2009, 06:05:30 AM
Trust me, Jack.  I am NOT calling you a liar, racist, or any such thing.

I'm just not so sure about some of the sources you listen to.

Some folks out there are telling some whoppers in their zeal to defeat healthcare reform -- playing the "fear" card for all it's worth.

I'm still giving Obama and Company a chance to prove themselves.  They are up against some monied interests - Big Insurance, Big Pharma, etc.- who are working very hard to keep their Goose laying its Golden Eggs, giving them excess profits at everyone's expense.

Why should the cost of healthcare be such a high % of personal income?

Why should the cost of healthcare be escalating far greater than the overall cost-of-living - with more and more exclusions and co-pays?

Why should healthcare in the US be so much more expensive than in ANY other civilized country in the world?

Yes, Jack, we can discuss the issues like gentlemen (and ladies), having differing viewpoints, yet respecting each other implicitly.

We have a common bond of being amputees.  And, as such, many of us have had more health care than the average person.  So yes, healthcare IS an issue that would interest many of us, right?
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Joe A. on October 09, 2009, 03:56:17 PM
What about the hidden new tax? Did you know you can only deduct a portion if you paid out more than 7.5 % in medical expenses? That will increase to above 10 % Hitting a sector of people who can least afford the increase. You won't find that in the reform bill. I'm sick of all the "Shell" games.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on October 09, 2009, 04:17:23 PM
Joe:

I'm with you on this one.  Chiselling away at those of us who have extensive medical expenses.  It wasn't that many years ago when they began the 7% threshold.  Now you say it's up to 7.5%?

This has been going on for some years now - nothing new.  Rather than raise the base tax rates, which would be visble and unpopular, they whittle away at one deduction or another.  Loan interest, among others.

BTW - Just recind the fat-cat tax breaks for the richest 1% - that would go along way to easing shortages, and tax those ultra-wealth few who can easily afford to help out.  And stop giving special tax exemptions to favored corporations -- oh yeah, the ones owned largely by the same richest 1%.  There's where the BIG money is.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on October 09, 2009, 10:28:42 PM


But they won't touch that Dick.  Obama sure does talk pretty, but people are starting to get the idea that's all there is to Mr. Obama.  So far the mom/pop companies have not gotten a cent...all the money has gone to the big corporations & they aren't giving any up.  Where is this Big Change he talked about???  Haven't seen it yet !!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on October 10, 2009, 12:43:46 AM
Ann, dear:

Yer right.  They haven'y touched the richest Big Boys yet.

But don't don't be too hasty to blame Obama for that  Remember, it was George Bush and Co. who created the fat-cat tax break for the richest 1%.  Obama and Co. inherited the mess.  It will take time to undo the damage.

Also, any real change must come from the Congress - the hundreds of Representatives and the Senators - to create legislation that the President can sign.

OK. OK.  Back to my original proposal:  Don't give billions of $$$ to the banks or corp exec's, who will mismanage it just like they mismanaged the billions they already had.  Hmmm.  Guess what?  Isn't that exactly what HAS happened?

Instead, they should have taken the same billions of $$$ and divided it up and given directly to the individual tax-payers in equal amounts.  Couple that with some heavy-duty education on how to manage one's financial affairs (i.e. how to live within one's means, and not go head-over-heels into further debt).

Each person could use their "stimulus payment" to their best advantage.  For some, to pay off some of their high-interest debt.  For others, to purchase necessities without going further into debt.  For others, to invest wisely, to recover some of what was lost in their retirement accounts.

Yeah, probably some people will squander their stimulus checks, but hopefully most will use it wisely.  Call it "stumulus".  Call it "tax rebate".  Call it whatever, but make make it a flat equal amount for every person.  Whether you are wealthy or poor, you get the same amount.

But, golly Ann, no one listened to me.  So here we are.....
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on October 10, 2009, 11:36:17 AM

Dick,

Guess you didn't holler loud enough !!!!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: annieg on October 10, 2009, 12:00:55 PM
Dick,  That makes way too much sense for anyone in Washington to understand.  We should send you there!
Annieg
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: stinker373 on October 10, 2009, 12:43:11 PM
Nothing anyone says is ever taken seriously.  The government will govern they way they want to and keep the people under control which is there biggest peave, getting all your money so they can play with it.  If you squak to loudly they squash you.  Most promises made before being elected are usually long gone out the window when they get in. It makes me wonder what is wrong with this planet..Are we the people blind as to what goes on around us?  Oh well I am off my soap box lol.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on October 10, 2009, 01:49:17 PM
'Stinker',

That's what is happening & we are being called racists.......no way.......most of those screaming the loudest were senior citizens. They do not want their medicare messed with...the government wants in the health bill to pay our doctors less starting in the year 2010/2011  {can't remember which year} that means we {seniors} will pay the difference.  Which is better,  add a tax increase or have to pay the difference in our health care.  I will tell you this, I DO NOT WANT OBAMA TO FAIL but he needs to get off his back side & stand up for what he campaigned on. If Harry Reid pushes this health care bill through there will be alot of Washington Elite mighty sorry come next election. :)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: stinker373 on October 10, 2009, 02:15:12 PM
I hear ya loud and clear Ann.  What they are getting away with is discusting.  MISSMANAGEMENT of the funds trusted to them.  As far as I am concerned TRUST is out the window.  Anything a politation says on his or her platfrom is crap to get your vote and the millions of dollars spent on this stuff could no doubt support the senors for a year for medical stuff.  In my eyes they are as crooked as a dogs hing leg.  There is lots of stuff that people can research on there pc's if they take the time.  Michel moores movies are a great resorce if people decided to watch it and perhaps watch id a second and third time.  I bet you or others will miss stuff the first time because they will be in shock at what they see and hear.  That is my hint for the day go ahead and view that stuff.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on October 26, 2009, 12:48:18 PM
Here is a link to two articles on msnbc this morning illustrating some of the problems people are having with our current health care system. The second article deals with the waste within the system. If the waste and fraud could be eliminated, the needed reforms would not cost anything. Herb

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33441437/ns/health-health_care/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33480141/ns/health-health_care/
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on November 08, 2009, 10:55:11 AM
Well it is a done deal they passed the dang thing last night 220-215, with one republican from LA voting for it, watch CNN most of the time last night during the discussion on it and dont like what i heard from both DEMOGRATS and REPUBLICANS, for one thing if you are on MEDICARE, start planning on long delays to get needed special test done, and in 2012 you are going to loose your MEDICARE ADVANTAGE, plus the fact they are taking 400 billion out of MEDICARE program, that itself will just about kill medicare as we now it. And as for prexisting conditions all they did was cut the waiting time in half. Also all of you retiered military people out there look out also cause i am not sure how they did it but TRICARE is some how tied in with MEDICARE. Havent had a  chance to check on the DREABLE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT yet, but have a feeling the it is going to get cut, i do know that a big tax has been place on all medical equipment and our legs fall into that area. And depending on how much they cut payments to doctors, i am afraid that both me and my wife have lost ours. i know that i have lost my ENT doc, cause he has stated that if it passes he is going to close his door and retire. and my CPO has hinted to the same thing, Have other irons in the fire to overcome this but cant say any more until after the first of the year.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on November 08, 2009, 03:35:29 PM
Pegleg:

You certainly are a prophet of doom and gloom.  Sounds like the same patter I've heard from those who oppose ANY healthcare reform - which doesn't make sense to me.

That $400 billion - is that program and services being cut, or is that waste and mismanagement being reined in?

The whole medical-pharma-insurance industry is full of waste and inflated prices and excess profits.  And I'm sure Medicare has its share of these excesses.  When hospitals charge $5 for an aspirin or $700 for a 5-miniute consultation, we know that the whole system is out of control.  The wheelchair company charged $22 for a replacement screw.  I could buy a dozen of the same screw at Home Depot for less than $4.  Hmmm.....
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on November 09, 2009, 10:34:54 AM
Dick, i can see that you are a democrat, and the information that i put on here came from democrats saturday night on CNN, during the debaate session just before the vote, now i suppose that you are going to say that CNN, is a right wing news station like FOXNEWS.

What i would like to know is if there is 400 billion in mismanagement and waste why hasnt it been taken care of before this and now just shows up, i do beleive there is something smelly in DENMARK on this, for the demo's have had control for sometime now.

I dont need the goverment telling what i can do and which DOC, Ican see, i have enoulgh of that now with MEDICARE and VA.

here is one item that i am fighting right now and i have ED real bad and i cannot get treatment for it cause medicare wont pay for it, but yet the will pay for birth control for women.

So if i am a provayour of DOOM and GLOOM, it is cause i listen and read up on what is going on that will effect my life, and this is going to effect my life big time. And i am not going to put my tail between my legs and run and hide and let them do what ever they feel like doing, and also i am not a MORON, like QUEEN NANCY, has called us. That we are suppost to shut up and let them do what they feel we need.

I am not for redoing our health care, which needs to be done, cause like i have said before i know of nurses that are making over 100,000.00 a year and if you look it up and i think it is still there and they work for one of the biggest health care companies in the us, and that is KIASER PREMENTE. found this out when i had thier insurance when i lived in california. And all three of my doctors were making over 400,000.00 a year and a simple CAT SCAN was going for over 3000.00, to me that is the cost the needs to be reined in. also right now just a 15 min office visit with my doc is bill at the price of 165.00.

And if now they can come up with the money to close the donot hole in MEDICARE PART D, why didnt they do it when they wrote the bill,

I realilize that the REPUBLICIAN PARTY, isnt much better and they have their bad points, but can say this they are listening to the people, have emailed both of them and the only answer i have gotten back are from my REPUBLICAN representives and senators. the DEMO'S  have written my off cause i am a moron, racist, and terrist trying to cause trouble.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on November 09, 2009, 05:49:18 PM
Jack:

One thing we agree on, the outrageously high price of medical care!  You cite the cost of a cat-scan and dr's visit.  I cited other things.  But thing in common, the costs are WAY outta sight.  Agreed?

Now if these outrageous charges were reined in, there's your $400 billion.  Especially if you include actual fraud, double-charging, etc.

Also, as a victim of the dreaded Donut Hole, I'd like to see that injustice resolved.  That and the outlandish drug prices.  One thing I believe DID come out of the Bush Adminstration - that Medicare is prohibited from negotiating drug prices.  Net result:  maximum drug costs to patients, and maximum profits to Big Pharma.  And, of course, these max prices speed us faster toward the ^%$$#@ Donut Hole.


We may agree that healthcare is an issue (or do we??), but to suggest that Democrats are the source of all problems, and the Republicans have all the right answers - - - well, Jack, I ain't swallowing that one.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on November 16, 2009, 10:45:28 AM
Hi to you-all, and it has started and they havent even passed the dang thing, it was on MSNBC NEW yesterday from the head man at MEDICARE AND MEDCAID headquarters that if they take the 400 billion away from there, they will have to cut NURSING HOME AND LONG TERM CARE from medicare and medicaid, and just noticed the BIG PHAMA, is allready raising the price of drugs on us,

So i hope that if it comes in to effect that nobody has to have either on of those in order to stay alive.

Dick, you didnt read my post right and i stated the the REPUBLICAN'S so far are not much better.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on November 16, 2009, 01:39:09 PM
Jack:

As someone so delicately put it, "When the defecation hits the rotating oscillator...."

All kinds of claims and counter-claims continue to fly.  Remember there are those who want to make sure that any healthcare bill never sees the light of day.  And they are working tooth-and-nail to make sure of that.

Remember that the Goose is laying Golden Eggs for Big Pharma, Big Insurance, and Big Medicine...... and they want to be sure those big Colden Eggs keep coming their way.

What we need is NOT to cut 400 billion in services of any kind, but to cut 400 billion in (1) waste, fraud, double-billing, inefficiency, AND (2) the ever-ballooning excess profits to Big Pharma, Big Insurance, and Big Medicine.  An efficiency expert could have a field-day cleaning up the mess.  But, of course, these special interests don't want that to happen.

So, before we panic, let's see what -if anything - makes it all the way thru the legistlative process.  It keeps getting watered down and compromised until there's little left but window-dressing.  I hope I'm wrong, folks, but let's wait and see what finally emerges.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on November 17, 2009, 04:36:11 PM
Dick,

I think when this health bill comes you will see the seniors are going to pay through the nose.  There is so much underhanded dealing, it will never work the way its written up.

I'm sorry   :(    but Nancy Pelosi is such an underhanded person...even the democrates on cnn & fox are saying she tricked them into signing HER version of the bill that the house passed.

I think everyone will be upset!!!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on November 17, 2009, 05:55:26 PM
Ann:

Remains to be seen what finally comes out of the healthcare bills ... still a long way to go before anything becomes law.

No secret that there's not much love lost between Nancy Pelosi and Fox News.

One thing that doesn't add up:  As a Social Security pensioner, I fail to see their logic.  (1) They say there's no rise in the Cost of Living (as they calculate it - not in real life), hence no rise in SS Pension for 2010, yet (2)  healthcare costs are UP, so there will be a larger deduction from SS payments for Medicare premiums, so (3) the NET amount of each month's SS check will be LESS.

DUH!  If the cost of healthcare is going UP, isn't that part of the Cost of Living (in real life)?  Sounds like they are engaging in a bit of "Creative Accounting" at our expense.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on November 22, 2009, 10:07:59 AM
well it is one step closer now, but i have a question to ask all of you.

Would you buy a house,car, major appliances, and make payments on it for four years before you could use it, That what i heard and got from it last night and this came from both sides. All of the tax increases and cut come 40 days after the bill is passed and signed into law and the benefits don't start until the year 2014.

plus two of the cut are going to really hurt the seniors. one is MEDICARE ADVANTAGE, and the other according to the head man at MEDICARE AND MEDICAID is they will have to cut NURSING HOMES AND LONG TERM CARE from MEDICARE AND MEDICAID. and by the way does anyone out the beside me know what it cost per month to have a person in a nursing home. well i do and it run our family just over 4000.00 a month to keep the person that raised both me and my sister, we had to sell the house that we were raised in and used that money to keep him there, we had no choice, and finally the state took over cause we could not pay and the money ran out. If any of you don't believe me i can get copies of the bill from my sister and show it to y'all.

The other question is how many people are going to loose there homes, and life time savings in these four years before any of the benefits come into play and start covering it. That is people that are already in the homes. and just how many homes will go bankrupted from all of this in the first four year and all the people out of work.

they keep saying that MEDICARE AND MEDICAID will improve, i for one don't see it, if you take 476 billion away from a program, it will gut that program.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on November 23, 2009, 10:36:51 AM
PegLeg,,,,I don't want to start a big fight, but I agree with you on most of what you have said.  And listen guys, this is not Fox News Propaganda,,,,this is coming form msnbc & cnn also.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on November 25, 2009, 10:03:38 PM
cartoon showing priorities(http://)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on November 26, 2009, 01:23:01 AM
Thanks, Herb.  That cartoon says it all.

If we could get out of these wars, we'd be able to pay for first-class healthcare for all ..... and have change left over.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on November 26, 2009, 10:12:22 PM
You betcha'!  ;)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Jeff Jester on November 27, 2009, 04:21:08 AM
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on December 09, 2009, 12:08:25 PM
Looks like the public option may be shot down!! AMEN!! YAHOOO!!!!!!!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on December 10, 2009, 10:16:51 AM
Snow, have been watching c-span2 and i would not hold my breath or count my chickens just yet, cause i dont trust them as far as i could throw any of them, the only thing so far that i have seen the DEMO'S do right is have a amendment added so that we can get our med's from CANADA if we so chose.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on December 10, 2009, 01:09:08 PM
PegLeg,

I saw on the news this morning that  Pres. Obama was for this {while campaigning} but now he's against it.   :(    If you are a senior you are not going to come out ahead.  I have been in the donut hole for awhile & let me tell you IT'S NO FUN!!!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on December 10, 2009, 01:50:03 PM
I know Jack Noboma is a flip flopper and that's not all..  :)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on December 10, 2009, 02:24:33 PM
Snow, i belong to some military web sites and you should read some of the names he gets call, and on thing i like about on of them is that the old POLITICAL CORRECTNESS has been thrown out the window.

Ann, i feel for you on being in that donut hole, so far i dont come close to it and pray that it never happens, if i do i just might have my wifes reletives from down south send them to me.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on December 10, 2009, 02:47:38 PM
Yeah Jack I can just imagine! and they are all correct to what they call "The One"! ha ha!
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on December 11, 2009, 01:37:32 AM
Hi Ann:

We're in the Donut Hole together.  It happens from Mid-August thru December each year for me.  It is a royal rip-off the way they calculate it.

If they DO permit us to get drugs from Canada, we'll save a significant amount.  Also, if the US Big Pharma get a little competition from the North, they might bring their US prices down to something more reasonable.  Today, they have no competition, so they can gouge us to their hearts content.

Along the same lines, I don't know why you're so happy that the Public Option is probably out the window?  The only one's who really profit by having no Public Option are the Big Insurance Companies.  Again, with no competition, they are free to gouge us as much as they want.

Remember, when your Big Insurance Company gives their CEO's multi-million dollar bonuses, guess who's paying for those fat-cat bonuses?  It's you and me - their premium-paying customers.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: snowbear on December 11, 2009, 02:09:29 PM
Your wrong Dick we are not happy the public option may be out the window many are ELITED!!!!  :) YAHOOOO!!! :)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on December 11, 2009, 03:51:26 PM
Dick,

Correction, I didn't post on public option.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on December 12, 2009, 03:11:31 PM
Ann:

You're right.  My goof, I see it was Snowbear.  Still, I believe that those who oppose Public Option (yes, option) will regret it down the road ... when private-only insurance costs continue to soar thru the roof, taking a higher and higher % of everyone's total income. 

Dunno about you, but I think having options is a good thing.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on December 12, 2009, 08:18:00 PM
Hi Dick - I agree with you 100%. I have had more of my share of bad experiences with insurance companies. Maybe some competition will help them to run their business honorably. My prosthetist says he would rather deal with medicare than any other insurance plan and he has 30 years of problems with insurance companies. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on December 13, 2009, 10:37:23 AM
Don't know guys.....personally believe the Democrates are pushing it through too quick.   ;)
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on December 13, 2009, 10:50:27 AM
Ann, and that is what scares the h--- out of me, why does it have to been done so fast and we dont get to use it until 2014, but yet the taxes and lose of MEDICARE ADVANTAGE comes 60 days after the bill is passed, my own opinion, something smells in denmark on this, there is some thing they are not telling us about going on.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on December 14, 2009, 02:30:14 PM
PL Jack:

Pushing thru too quickly??  Well, not really.  Democrats have been trying since the beginning of Clinton's Presidency to get some healthcare reform -- to no avail.  The Big Pharma / Big Insurance lobbies have managed to block any reform.  And nothing happened during the Bush years, exept to further entrench the poweers of Big Pharma and Big Insurance.  Costs have soared all those years.

So now the Democrats are in office, and some progress is being made after all these years.

Pushing too quickly??  Well, I suppose that ANY progress toward reform would be "Too quickly" for Big Insurance and Big Pharma. (They're profiteering on the status quo.)  But for the rest of us, it's about time we get off our duffs and get some meaningful reform.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on December 24, 2009, 10:44:55 AM
This goes out to all of you that is on MEDICARE aand have MEDICARE ADVANTAGE, WELL itis one step closer to lossing it and a lot off other benifits that we have, they passed it this morning and now it goes back to the house to be combined with there version.

T here are some thing in it i like, but dont like what they are cutting and the main fact is that we dont get to use it for four years.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: ann on December 24, 2009, 11:21:26 AM
But of course we start paying immediately......what a bummer.  There are some good ideas, but most are for the middle class & seniors paying & paying & paying. :(
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on December 24, 2009, 11:43:44 AM
Hi Ann Hi Pegleg - the benefits for the new health care bill get phased in over the next 5 years. A few start in 2010. All medicare benefits mandated by current law are unchanged. There are still a lot of people making inaccurate claims about how seniors are going to lose medicare.

Here is a link to an article that answers a few questions.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2009/12/senate_health_reform_bill_affe.html
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: pegleg jack on December 24, 2009, 09:06:45 PM
Herb, will you please tell me why every time i turned on c-spann and listened to both democrats and republicans stating the fact the with all of the new taxes, that medicare senior advantage was being cut along with other benifits in medicare. you and others keep saying that this is not going to happen but yet i here the same thing i have stated from others that have listened to C-SPANN,  for the last week and have gotten the same thing that i have heard.
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: herb on December 25, 2009, 11:08:47 AM
Hi Jack - my understanding of medicare advantage programs are that they are managed by private insurance companies and are subsidized by the federal government. This new law is going to cut that subsidy by 14%. Herb
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: jimmydw on January 19, 2010, 05:17:23 PM
This bill is awful....and I am already feeling the effects of some of this already.  Well, they CLAIM that the healthcare reform won't change anything for seniors...BUT they are cutting over $500 BILLION from the budget...so, do the math and figure this out....more people enrolled, and less money to cover the costs...that DOESN'T add up!!!  It WILL definitely cut the benefits, and DME (including prosthetics...Durable Medical Equipment) is the prime candidate to be cut first and hardest.

This bill forces the now "un-insured" to go and buy insurance, making the private companies (like Anthem) grow with more customers.  This bill doesn't say anything about insurance companies having to have reasonable rates, or control THEIR increases, or their profits.  It only forces everyone to go and pay several hundred dollars a month for health insurace.

In my case, I pay over $700 every month for insurance, and thank heavens I can afford that, but it does cut into what I could buy or spend that money on (maybe part of the cause of the financial problems in this nation...when health insurance goes up, we HAVE to suck it up and pay it...and that means there is less money for a new car, or new refridgerator, or whatever.)

But what happens to the people that are FORCED to choke out $500 per month (or much MORE)???  I guess they can sell their car and go without, or not send a child to college, or pay their mortgage and go into forclosure, etc.....

I guess there's an alternative, which is to NOT have insurance and just pay the $2250 per year (for a family) to the government to NOT have insurance, and then have even less money to get the vaccines for you children, or pysicals, dental exams....etc....

Or the last alternative is to NOT pay that fine, and then go to jail....but at least in jail you have access to healthcare, and better benefits while in prison.  And, while in prison, you family can get on Medicaid.

Nice healthcare reform, huh??
Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: jimmydw on January 19, 2010, 05:37:10 PM
One more note on the Big Pharma and what they really want, and who they are supporting, and the big insurance companies as well.

Who did the BIG PHARMA just have a fundraiser for???  Well, it was the candidate for the Senate seat in Mass.  She is the Democrat, and she was given a TON of money from them at this dinner for her campaign.  Do we see any BIG PHARMA supporting or donating money to her opponent, the Republican Candidate that says he will be the 41st vote to end this reform process??  NO!!!!  The big pharma and big insurance WANTS this reform!!!!!  They are 100% behind the Democrats that are pushing this!!!!!

HOW CAN THE PUBLIC NOT GET THIS?????

The CHIEF lobbyist for Anthem and United Healthsystems is Tom Daschle, also known as the Czar of Healthcare Reform, and he has been in EVERY close-door meeting working on this bill.

And let's look at the Max Baucus bill, the author of the Senate Finance Committe "bipartisan" bill...and it was SO bi-paritsan that not even his Democratic friends in the committee would support it or even stand beside him when he unveiled it.

Let's look at the REAL author of this bill, Max's Chief of Staff.   Her name is Liz Fowler, and who is she??  Google her, or do a look on Wikipedia.  She is the VP of External Affairs for Wellpoint/Anthem.

There are also many Anthem names that pop up in the Congressional side as well.

So, who is really pushing for "reform"????  Yes, the big insurance and BIG PHARMA industry.

If anyone can find any evidence or proof that any Big Pharma supports or backs anyone that opposes this bill (like any Republican) please let me know.  I can't find it, and I have looked.

These big industries have this administration wrapped around their fingers, and yet Obama still stands up there and says that it's the Republicans that are wanting the "Status Quo", and to protect the Big Pharma and the Big INsurance companies....and the public is buying it and BELIEVES him when he says this....

Google these names and find it for yourselves. 

Title: Re: new health care bill
Post by: Dick Stevens on January 19, 2010, 07:26:43 PM
Different prespectives here  I've seen Big Business "in bed" with the Republicans, all along.  And that includes Big Pharma, Big Insurance, and Big Medicine, along with all the other big Fat-Cats.

Republicans have vowed to kill Healthcare Reform in any form.  They claim the present bills are so horrible, but have offered NOTHING better to replace them.  It seems their only agenda is NO reform.

I haven't seen results yet, but if that Mass Senate seat goes to the Republiocans, any hope for healthcare reform goes out the window.

Republicans wouldn't care if a majority (59 to 41) want reform, they plan to kill it with fillibuster.  With no reform:

a. Insurance companies continue to charge outrageous premiums while their fat-cat CEO's get multi-million-dollar bonuses.

b. Insurance companies exclude all pre-existing conditions.

c. Insurance cos deny coverage for costly remedies, calling them "experimental".

d. Big Pharma enjoys sky-high pricing, while Americans are dis-allowed to buy drugs in Canada.

e. Seniors on Medicare still go broke with the insideous "Donut Hole".


The only problem I see with Healthcare Reform is that's been watered-down so much, trying to placate one faction after the next.