Author Topic: new health care bill  (Read 28624 times)

Offline snowbear

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2009, 07:20:44 PM »
Many people created their own problem's if they made their bed they can lay in it.

Offline Dick Stevens

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2009, 05:33:52 AM »
I'll be very surprised if any substantive healthcare reform gets passed anytime soon.  While most Americans I hear are saying SOMETHING has to be done to improve healthcare, many are debating just what the changes should be.  But, there's too many vested interests that want to keep it the way it is.  And with our "ingenious" political system in the US, that's likely to be the case.

Before any bill becomes law, it must pass a vote in BOTH houses AND be signed by the President.  And as long as the bill is debated in numerous committees, and possibly voted on the floor, as long as EITHER house drags their feet (or vote No), nothing happens.  Thus, those who want the status quo have a great advantage over those who want change.


Dick Stevens, DBKA in PA

Offline snowbear

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2009, 05:52:41 PM »
Many Americans don't want or don't think that the illegal immigrates should be covered.

Offline herb

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2009, 07:48:17 PM »
Snowbear - Please tell which section says that illegal immigrants will be covered. If you read  the text of the proposed healthcare legislation, you will see that  Sec. 246. Prohibits Federal payment for undocumented aliens. Coverage is not provided for anyone not lawfully present in the United 
States. herb 

Offline snowbear

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2009, 08:22:45 PM »
The total of number uninsured includes the illegals..Look it up..case and point we do not want universal health care. :)

Offline Chippewa

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2009, 01:17:49 AM »
The total of number uninsured includes the illegals..Look it up..case and point we do not want universal health care. :)

I'd love to see a change because our system is broken, but the current proposal (which seems like a ploy to help shift the healthcare portion of government/postal/auto pensions onto the taxpayer) won't do us any good.   

We see prosthetists driving expensive cars and wearing suits while they try to sell us the most expensive product possible.  They add a fishtank overflow valve to the socket, and bill us an extra $600 for suction.  They recommend components with the highest markup instead of giving us the best value for our money.  They tell us that the best way to build a socket is to float us in the socket with a magic (expensive) gel liner that's supposed to make up for the fact that there's no craftsmanship left in the making of sockets.   Our system is set up to reward prosthetists, for quantity of care instead of quality of care, and your prosthetist is happy to bill you for a new leg as often as he can get away with it. 

On a trip to a Canadian hospital, I observed the complete opposite.  There wasn't an incentive to make legs more expensive, but there was an incentive to make them right the first time to save the cost of a redo.  Everybody I saw took a huge amount of pride in their work, and amputees sockets fit well enough to last for years instead of months.  The technicians didn't hesitate to spend time doing extra laminations to make sure everything was perfect, and the prosthetists were craftsmen instead of salesmen.  The amputees there did have to pay a little extra for high end components, but in return they got a better fit than you can buy in the US. 

IMHO we don't need universal healthcare to fix the problems in our healthcare system, but we do need to change the pay structure to reward doctors/hospitals/prosthetists for results rather than procedures and parts. 


Offline Dick Stevens

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2009, 03:21:31 AM »
Chippewa:

Welcome to the group.

What you say about the healthcare issues makes alot of sense.  My experiences when visiting Canada were similar.

Snowbear:

I agree that illegals should not be getting free healthcare here.  Simply put, they should not BE here!  They should be getting healthcare in their country of origin.  For that matter they shouldn't be in our public schools or prisons, either.  They should be back home.

I welcome legal immigrants, legal guest-workers, legal visitors, of course. But NOT illegals.  If some of them should be here in the U.S., then their presence should be legalized (guest-worker or immigrant status).  If working, they should pay taxes, and so on.

Dick Stevens, DBKA in PA

Offline snowbear

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2009, 03:02:23 PM »
I agree Dick, many immigrants come to the U.S. the legal way work hard and contribute and become U.S. citizens and yes they should receive health care and all they have WORKED for like all  of us. The illegals no they should not receive anything. ::)

Offline ann

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #38 on: August 19, 2009, 11:16:56 AM »


The bad thing about it...illegals are included in the uninsured...that is the way the government will be trying to get around this.  I'm afraid this time though, the people are finally standing up for their rights.  As one lady has said, we are not astro-turf....we are the real grass roots.    :)

Offline snowbear

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #39 on: August 19, 2009, 11:53:10 AM »


The bad thing about it...illegals are included in the uninsured...that is the way the government will be trying to get around this.  I'm afraid this time though, the people are finally standing up for their rights.  As one lady has said, we are not AstroTurf....we are the real grass roots.    :)


That's what I was trying to say..Herb. And its just not acceptable no way..Its about time people finally stand up...Love it Ann yes we are real grass roots and hopefull we will win.

Offline chrysochloridae

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2009, 12:46:56 PM »

I'd love to see a change because our system is broken, but the current proposal (which seems like a ploy to help shift the healthcare portion of government/postal/auto pensions onto the taxpayer) won't do us any good.   

We see prosthetists driving expensive cars and wearing suits while they try to sell us the most expensive product possible. 

IMHO we don't need universal healthcare to fix the problems in our healthcare system, but we do need to change the pay structure to reward doctors/hospitals/prosthetists for results rather than procedures and parts. 


Hi Chippewa,

Its like 1 extreme to the other. in the UK prosthetists have a budget to stick to which must ensure that everybody gets treated - so value for money  is essential. I'd love to prescribe people some of the newest feet and knees that are all singing and all dancing, but i have to be fair to everyone.

Prosthetists don't get paid too well over in the UK, I've  said before about how you can spot the prosthetists attnding any Prosthetics and Orthotics conference because all the prosthetists drive old bangers!

There must be a happy medium between the private and government healthcare? I recon a voucher scheme could work quite well; i.e. the government gives you a cheque for a certain ammount to purchase a limb and a yearly cheque to maintain it - and you could 'top-up' the ammount with private insurance/personal funds if you felt you wanted something above average (e.g. Limblogic system / C-Leg). That way everybody gets something, but if you have the insurance / money you could get something a bit better...


Offline Dick Stevens

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2009, 01:50:39 PM »
Chrysoc.

The way you describe the UK system makes alot of sense.  That way, everyone gets basic care - no one falls thru the cracks.  Then, if you have extra funds, you can buy optional, top-line stuff.

Here in the U.S., there's a whole smorgasboard of healthcare plans - some paid by govt, some paid by employers, some paid by the individual.  Then, there's the unfortunate ones who have NO healthcare coverage.

Remember, the first goal of private insurance companies is NOT to provide healthcare, but to make a PROFIT.  Thus, they charge as much as possible, and give back as little as possible.  Their eye is always on the "Bottom Line".

Dick Stevens, DBKA in PA

Offline pegleg jack

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2009, 05:02:18 PM »
have one question for you all, if the health care is to great in the Uk and CANADA, why am reading and hearing that there is up to eight weeks delay in a senior being able to get CHEMO treatment for cancer, and then i also read that a lot of people from CANADA, are coming to the states to have thier operations because of the lead time to get it done up there.

I can say that the system we have right now sucks butter milk in a big way and needs to be worked on, but dont agree with BIG BROTHER taking it over and i sure dont want him in my personal information any more than he already is. With being in the US NAVY for nine years and now am in the VA system, the goverment has more information and know more about me than i do.

I am in a holding pattern on this mess, dont like what i hear and read and now i have heard that the DEMOCRATS have enough votes to push this through without any REPUBLICANS even voting on it or against it.

But to my own opinion, after they get voted in, they become smarter than the ordinary person and know just what we need and dont have to listen to us at all, seem like they put themselves above and dont need our views on anything.
you-all have a great day.

Offline snowbear

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2009, 05:07:33 PM »
Your right Jack many people come to the US for medical treatments. My friends parents come to the US for medical and much faster and better care then in Canada where they live.

I have a friend in the UK who's son has the same thing I do with his leg..He has to wait 6 months for a leg brace..How stupid is that? when its a fragile tibia? No we don't want it here now or ever! :)

Offline ann

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Re: new health care bill
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2009, 09:30:05 AM »
Did anyone see Fox & Friends this morning?  They interviewed their {Canada} top Dr. over health care...she even said theirs was bad...and yes their are alot of people coming to the US for care.