Author Topic: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^  (Read 6514 times)

Offline Genki_rockets

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Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« on: April 17, 2009, 12:36:16 AM »
It looks more compact and according to the article, it has gotten smarter.

Supposedly, ossur is working on coding so that it becomes accepted by insurances and medicare like c-leg in few more years.  damn, i guess i can only dream about getting one for now. ^^


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/04/16/ST2009041604735.html

Offline Ally

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2009, 03:26:18 AM »
Wow, he is walking so well!!

The last power knee was VERY heavy and the battery life was around 3 hours.  Wonder if that's changed.....

Still sounds very loud, like RoboCop, but eish....what a blessing to be walking like that again!

I'm not even going to ask about price.....the last power knee was close to SAR1,000.000 which is so completely out of reach that I would probably see a piglet fly before I saw someone here walking with a knee like that.

Thanks for the link.
 :)
Courage does not always roar.  Sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying "I will try again tomorrow."

Offline Genki_rockets

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2009, 12:46:56 PM »
well Ally, Ossur did eventually bring the price down to $70,000.00 and for power knee II, they are hoping to go low as $40,000.00 next year.  I heard that if Ossur can bring it down below $30,000, medicare and many insurances will start covering the knee.

Maybe 5 yrs from now, power knee might be as common as C-leg.  Well, that's what i hope.  C-leg is great but after walking around the shopping mall for an hour, I am really spent & I am not getting any younger.  I think power knee is a great option for aging AK amputees.

btw, the battery on the new knee lasts all day. ^^

Offline herb

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2009, 05:55:25 PM »
Hi Genki - rocket -

The video was interesting. I would have liked to have seen someone using it who was missing only one leg and outside on rough terrain and on steps. 

I would really like to see some major research done on developing a good comfortable socket that doesn't cost $12000 and does not fall off when you are climbing a tree or perspiring. I have never seen the need for a power knee but imagine they might be nice for climbing several flights of stairs. Herb

Offline stinker373

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2009, 07:42:40 PM »
What get me is that the price they are charging is way out to lunch and no one can afford it so why invent something no one can afford.  cut the pricing in half and we might be able to dream of walking without pain and being tired. The video never worked for me. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Offline Genki_rockets

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2009, 11:03:32 PM »
herb, i hear you.  i mean if you have to pay out of pocket for socket, man that's a raw deal.  there are number of solutions to mass produce well-fitting, pain-free sockets and it can be done easily.  But if that happened, most of prosthetists would lose their job.  My prosthetist told me that his profession would never allow something like that to happen. 

As long as prosthetists have sole control of producing sockets, innovators and manufacturers will be prevented from providing mass-produced sockets.  It's insane.  It's sort of like modern day golfers still stuck with using featheries but what can we really do? ^^  Besides, what's more important?  We can't sacrifice the whole industry so just you can get a cheap socket.  Can we?

As for socket that's fail-proof, you can get a KISS or if you want fail-proof AND seal-in liner (vacuum socket) you can get a coyote system.

And stinker, the first power knee came out with price tag of $100,000.  Ossur is in process of cutting the price in half and even lower.  When c-leg first came out, ppl said the same thing.  It's too expensive and insurance will not cover it.  Well, after ten years, most AK amputees do have C-leg or other microprocessor knees.  Give power knee ten years.  I am sure most of will get to use it then.

Offline pegleg jack

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2009, 09:33:22 AM »
Folks, i dont like to say this but if we dont get these states and goverment to do something we wont be getting new legs when we need them for the insurance companies want to drop DM coverage all to gether, and if that happens and have been told that my CPO, would have to close his shop up cause then none of us could afford to pay the price for the legs, i know that i cant do it, not what my new ones are costing, have a feeling most of us would wind up making something our selfs just to be able to walk, that i know that i would. And the price of this equipment is way out of line, my new feet i was told runs 4000.00 a piece and i looked at them and there is not even 200.oo worth of material in them and then the cost of machining. the whole foot to my opinion should not be over 1000.00 at the most, that gives everyone a profit on it. and keeps the price down, i know what machine work is involved because i was a PROTO TYPE MACHINIST for over 15 years.
you-all have a great day.

Offline Genki_rockets

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2009, 10:55:15 AM »
pegleg, we will always have an option of going to Canada or England and begging for a new socket or leg. ^^

Offline Ally

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 04:37:14 AM »
Hi Genki - rocket -

The video was interesting. I would have liked to have seen someone using it who was missing only one leg and outside on rough terrain and on steps. 

I would really like to see some major research done on developing a good comfortable socket that doesn't cost $12000 and does not fall off when you are climbing a tree or perspiring. I have never seen the need for a power knee but imagine they might be nice for climbing several flights of stairs. Herb

Hey Herb - that guy on the clip had 2 MAS sockets.......still my favourite  ;) 

Here in SA, the socket is around R35,000 which I reckon should be between $3000 and $4000 in the States.  I think........
Courage does not always roar.  Sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying "I will try again tomorrow."

Offline herb

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2009, 07:42:14 AM »
Hi Ally - that is a lot cheaper than here in NH. I am getting a new standard above knee socket next week and the cost is almost $12,000. Maybe I should come to South Africa for my next socket. I would save enough to take quite a vacation. Do you have to be a citizen of South Africa to get that price? Do you like your MAS socket? thanks, Herb

Offline pegleg jack

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2009, 09:01:26 AM »
Herb, if you check you will find that they will sell most of the stuff that they charge use a high price for, a lot cheaper over seas, they charge us high prices cause they know that they can get away with it, and over there they cant because of goverment controls that we dont have here.
you-all have a great day.

Offline Ally

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 10:41:32 AM »
Hi Ally - that is a lot cheaper than here in NH. I am getting a new standard above knee socket next week and the cost is almost $12,000. Maybe I should come to South Africa for my next socket. I would save enough to take quite a vacation. Do you have to be a citizen of South Africa to get that price? Do you like your MAS socket? thanks, Herb

My CP has seriously considered taking in overseas patients.  He has a cottage, as well as a guest house over the road.  He has chatted to me about this in the past, and he reckons that he can make a socket AND the patients can have a holiday at the same time.  So no, you don't have to be South African.  Absolutely not.

And yes, I ADORE my MAS socket.

 :)
Courage does not always roar.  Sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying "I will try again tomorrow."

Offline Ally

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 10:45:02 AM »
Herb, if you check you will find that they will sell most of the stuff that they charge use a high price for, a lot cheaper over seas, they charge us high prices cause they know that they can get away with it, and over there they cant because of goverment controls that we dont have here.

Jack, there is no control here in SA over prosthetic prices.  There are other CP's in SA who are charging more for a MAS for various (stupid IMHO) reasons.  The only control comes when a medical aid company is going to pay for the prosthesis.  Then they have a price-ceiling.  Otherwise, our CP's can more or less charge whatever they want.  Well, that's been my experience so far....

Courage does not always roar.  Sometimes it is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying "I will try again tomorrow."

Offline Oneblueleg

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2009, 01:03:12 PM »
And the price of this equipment is way out of line, my new feet i was told runs 4000.00 a piece and i looked at them and there is not even 200.oo worth of material in them and then the cost of machining. the whole foot to my opinion should not be over 1000.00 at the most, that gives everyone a profit on it. and keeps the price down, i know what machine work is involved because i was a PROTO TYPE MACHINIST for over 15 years.

You make quite a sweeping generalisation.
I don't know what foot you've got and don't particularly want to. However, you may want to consider that it's not just what you see that you are paying for.
Any new prosthetic device takes a long time from conception to market. During that development time, many people are employed carrying out trials, tests, design reiterations and refinements. If new technology or materials are being employed in the design and manufacture, these are very time consuming to refine and perfect. In most cases there's a certain amount of risk the product won't make it, in which case all this development is wasted.
This development time could be years.
All sorts of administrative hoops have to jumped through, agencies have to be satisfied, testing completed, standards met.
Then there's the product itself. The materials you see may be more expensive than you think, internally there may be parts which you can't see that when made in relatively small numbers (which these high end products are in this industry), may be expensive. Assembly time may be long for some technical reason. Economies of scale come in to it.

It's a bit like software, how cheap is it to burn a cd? next to nothing, but it took a lot of hours to develop it... that's why it costs what it does. The total number of sales expected over the lifetime of a product have also to be taken account of so that all these costs can be covered.

There may well be companies trying it on, all I would say is, maybe you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.

Aside from the cost of the products, I've always thought the expertise of the Prosthetist is the biggest cost with getting a good leg, it's the fit of the socket that's most critical and time consuming to achieve good results.

Offline chrysochloridae

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Re: Herb, have you seen the new power knee? It's sick. ^^
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 02:49:41 PM »